Mumsnet Talk

Well, it's a proposal...

I would love to have a cleaner, but until I can start earning from my freelance career I find it hard to justify the expense. Yet I would be a hell of a lot less stressed out and exhausted, and would also have more time to work on my freelance career, if I did have a career.

I also think it's a Good Thing to create more work for people such as cleaners.

Can't imagine hiring someone to cook our food, though...maybe if it was Jamie Oliver I might consider it . I'm perhaps a bit too controlling in the kitchen department to invite a stranger to take over there.

The big question is, would it make me vote Conservative? Maybe...if I was lobotomised at the same time.

(Note: I've linked to Charlie Brooker's article instead of the original because it's so much more entertaining!)

Arse! I meant to say, of course, "I would be a hell of a lot less stressed out and exhausted, and would also have more time to work on my freelance career, if I did have a cleaner."

Perhaps the lobotomy has already started...

I really do not object to this proposal.
Some people are able to command a high price for their labour, others less so.
Surely it is better to spend time in work, whatever the reward, than to languish on benefits. I think that a career in service is a respectable job, encompassing many skills that would be useful in one's personal life. spoken like Rose in Upstairs, Downstairs

Rofl at 'Rose!'

That survey on the Torygraph website was so ridiculous - lots of people apparently saying that if you're rich enough to afford a cleaner, you shouldn't get tax breaks. What poorly thought-out tosh.

Also it irritated me that it's been written up as something to benefit the middle classes - I'm sure they're more likely to have cleaners, but I am just as sure that working class folks would be just as happy to take advantage of this tax break offer as well.

To put it into context, during the times I have had "proper jobs" I have employed a local woman and have paid well above the "Tesco" rate. Tax free and flexible hours. This type of arrangement would suit so many people and perhaps should be formalized. I was so much more productive when I had help.

"I was so much more productive when I had help." This says it all, doesn't it. This is exactly what I need right now so that I can focus more time on my career.

The first time a got a cleaner I nearly cried. My home looked so much better than I could have made it. A good cleaner really is worth their salt, and, like you, I believe they should be paid a decent wage for their amazing work.

I wonder if this idea came from SamCam, or from one of the many women filling the Cabinet (guffaw). Seriously, though, it must have come from a woman. Just an idle thought.

Surely giving a tax break to the CLEANER would be more helpful? Rather than the person who has the money to PAY someone else to do their shit-work?

will they give a disabled person a tax break ? when they pay for a carer?

Driftwood999 - how did you manage to employ someone tax free then?

what next? Tax breaks for the rich to go on holiday? Buy yatchs? Cos the money 'trckles down' and employs hotel staff/boat builders.

KalSkirata ....maybe they will employ a disabled cleaner in a wheelchair.

OP - do you seriously imagine that many working class people would be able to take advantage of this tax break too? Have you a clue how little some people live off?

If cleaners, why stop there? - gardeners, handymen, window cleaners, chimney sweeps, chauffers, people who do your laundry, servants....

I want a tax break on my shopping. after all, it keeps all those cahsiers working....

well I should get one as I keep loads of people in work, cares. cleaners, TA's escourts to name a few

they should be paying you sevenfold, forkeeping all those people in work. Without you all them sn teachers, OT's TA's, escorts, wheelchair repair people etc etc wouldnt have jobs.

Its ridiculous. Why should wealthy people get tax breaks to buy in luxuries? Far better to have tax breaks on childcare so parents can afford to work.

what help poorer people maybe even<<<whispers>>>> disabled people.
oh yeah D Scam would do that.......not

pay the rich to employ house staff? whilst cutting the benefits of the disabled and their carers?

I have no words

I do, but they are not very nice

And meanwhile they are cutting working tax credits for families on low income working less than 24 hours but less than 16. But don't worry they should now be able to pick up a few more hours working as a scullery maid for the big house down the road. WTF ?

I'm sorry if I've offended some of you, that was absolutely not my intention.

Of course I agree that the government is absolutely wrong to cut tax credits. The whole point about tax credits is (or rather, like Child Benefit, is meant to be) that people who are struggling are given extra financial help. In fact I have been battling with the Inland Revenue over a particularly cruel way in which they recently cut tax credits from a friend who has suffered and continues to suffer more than anyone I've ever met.

I also agree that disabled people are treated probably worse than any other members of society - and the government's slashing of the DLA is one of many examples of that.

I also believe, like many economists who know far more about this than I do, that the way to get ourselves out of a recession is to increase spending and increase people's capacity to spend. I don't know whether the government is trying to do this by stealth, which proposals such as this tax cut for hiring cleaners. But unless they work their butts off to increase people's income - through protecting benefits as well as other means - we are going to remain in this recession for a very long time. This is still one of the most expensive countries in the world, and the government has a duty to tackle the ever-increasing gap between rich and poor.

I may be wrong but I think tax breaks are given for employing people, not being employed. So tax breaks or allowances for a disabled or elderly person hiring a carer - absolutely.

It's wrong to assume that working class people are all poor. Class is not distinguished by income. If anything, it's much harder to determine what a person's class is these days, and frankly it doesn't interest me all that much. But I know 'working class' people with a higher income and a better lifestyle than mine, and who also have cleaners.

And what is 'rich'? Those of us in the UK, with free healthcare and education up to age 18, a welfare system (however crappy it may be these days) are loaded compared with over 90% of the planet.

You may perhaps assume someone in this country is 'rich' if they live in a mortgage-free home which they inherited, and have an income of £40k and no partner or children to support. All well and good. For a family of 5 living in the southeast, where an average 3-bed house can cost £1400pcm to rent, with a household income of £40k, that doesn't leave very much to live on. You'd hardly call them 'rich'. If they work in a different city from where they live, travel costs to work will eat a massive whack from the remainder of their income. There will be no foreign holidays, not even on a budget airline. And yachts? Come off it. Do you know how few people can afford to own a bloody yacht? This family is never going to manage to afford to buy the house they rent, as it will be worth upwards of £280k. If they have a teenager who wants to go to university, they will have absolutely no chance of achieving that. But if they hired a cleaner to help the second partner to earn a living outside the home, that helps the family AND the cleaner. They might not earn enough to buy a house, but they'll struggle a bit less. And as I said before, cleaners should be paid a decent wage.

Sorry but you can work and clean! I was a house cleaner (yes, I was paid in cash but declaired all earnings). I worked for people who simply could nt be arsed to tidy. The things I saw..I don't even want to remember. Many people work and still clean their home..only those that can afford it buy in "help". The govt should not be giving financial bonuses to those that can already afford this..there are many that are struggling right now, including the cleaners, and they are getting poo'd on from a large height. God bless this Govt.... money is the King again!!

Velcro, you are in no position to say what someone else can fit into their day. You are living nobody's life but your own. As for your generalisation about the laziness of your previous clients; is that every single one of them you're referring to? Or just the few extreme examples that stick in your mind for conversations such as this?

I work and clean as well. I work day and night setting up my business because that is what it requires. When I say 'night', I mean until 2am. 7 days a week. And then on a good day I sleep till the kids wake up at 6.30. On a bad day they are teething or, like tonight, sick. In which case I get next to no sleep.

I assume that when you were a cleaner you were able to cheerfully clean your own home because you worked normal, daytime hours 5 days a week? Lucky you. Would I employ a cleaner if I could afford one? Damn right.

I realise that the tax break thing would likely benefit people who genuinely are wealthy, and that's not acceptable. Like the Child Benefit débacle, the government has to find a way of sorting that out.

From what I've read a system used in Sweden is being considered fir the uk. I've had personal experience of this in Sweden. Basically you can employ anyone to do any job in your household for you and get tax relief. It is not restricted to "cleaners" but covers gardeners, handymen, window cleaners, painters, low level care and support and many many other types of household help.
The effect I have seen is that people who needed one off jobs doing in their homes or regular support have finally been able to afford it. Which in turn has opened up employment opportunities that did not previously exisit.
It's interesting that many people have got their political blinkers on when considering this proposal. Assuming it is for ""middle class people who can already afford it to employ cleaners". Please try to take some time to consider the impact of this for the elderly person who needs adaptions made to their home which will enable them to live more comfortably or for the disabled person who could now afford regular help with cleaning / shopping. And then think about the jobs that they will create by being able to afford to pay someone to help them.

It's done in France very successfully. In home childcare, gardeners, cleaners, handymen, music lessons, tutoring - you get a reduction in tax depending what you pay out. For us it makes childcare affordable as we can't use a crèche or CM (start too early!).