Cant think of a title but bear with me..

[lovecheese]

Going back to the whole G&T/special trips/workshops etc, was thinking in the night during an insomniac hour about how unfair it seems to have these "enrichment" activities for able children who are going to do well and have no doubt good parental support and lots of opportunities anyway; wouldn't it be better to get some of the less able children doing these things to boost their confidence and skills? If 2 children from a school year join with other kids from a few local schools and have a specialist working with them, then why cant this person go into one school and teach a whole class?

[cory]

Our schools never had any enrichment trips- only an enrichment hour during the lunch hour (which dd promptly opted out of).

But I think the idea is that g&t children, even when placed in the top set, are likely to spend most of their time at school working on a level which does nothing to meet their needs, so it might be nice for them just once in a while to be able to work at their own level. The alternative would be to have more sets (=more teachers, and probably better qualified teachers as many g&t children quickly learn more than the teacher) so that even the most gifted children could be set work that actually fits their ability). This isn't going to happen for obvious financial reasons, so the g&t activities are a way of a))trying to keep genuinely gifted children quiet b)trying to identify giftedness and encourage it in some children who might not come from the kind of background where it is supported.

Not all gifted children have good parental support- far from it. Some are born into families who have a very negative attitude towards academic learning and who think it's a sign of presumption for someone from their group to aim for good school grades and university. That is the kind of situation that the g&t is supposed to remedy- though of course often it doesn't work out.

[lovecheese]

I see what you are saying Cory, but from my own personal experience with my DDs the brightest kids do seem to be stretched in a classroom situation (I obviously can not say that this happens 100% of the time for all the children in the school) - what I mean more is the idea that enrichment activities could perhaps happen for the benefit of all the kids eg a maths specialist going into the school for a day so that more children can benefit. Maybe I am being naive; it just bugs me when I see the same kids being chosen all the time (and yes I know these particular kids DO come from supportive backgrounds) and the average Joes get forgotten.

[CantSupinate]

In last year of 2 DC being on the G&T list there was one afternoon when one of them had an enrichment activity (fiddling with a video camera). That's been it.

Meanwhile, Kids in our special SN centre or kids who are just plain naughty seem to have lots of enrichment activities.

I'm not complaining, just saying that schools can divide their resources as they wish. I wonder if schools with higher average ability intake tend to, er, pander a bit to the higher ability pupils and their parents; maybe they have to do that to retain the top set if competing with other Outstanding schools in a higher income area?

[cory]

Actually, I do think you have a point, lovecheese. The way it actually works in many schools is that the enrichment activities do not go to the gifted-but-hitherto-undiscovered child from an intellectually impoverished background, but mainly to a (fairly large) group of bright children who do well at school because they have already been enriched and stimulated at home and speaks the same language as the teacher.

if, as Pixie says, it targeted the genuinely gifted, that would be different. But difficult to organise as a gifted child might only turn up at a school every 5 years or so, by which time you would have lost the resources.

Mind you, in dc's school, there were certainly no enrichment activities for SN children either: dd who is both g&t and SN did at least get invited to the g&t lunch hour: all her SN did for her was leaving her alone in the classroom without tuition when she couldn't access the stairs. The fact that dd has never been bored and has read far more than her peers is entirely due to her determination to make something of her education.

[mummytime]

Actually I think the unfair thing is if you are labeled as G&T you get to do special things. If you are labeled as struggling (especially with behaviour) you get to do special things. If you are good at sport, you get special attention. But if you are firmly in the middle you don't get any special attention.

[choccyp1g]

At DS school, everyone gets to do special things. They have themed days when specialist people come in, and "make a play-in-a-day", they had a visit from a music ensemble, (where they got a chance to try out the instruments), they have had skipping days (where they learnt all different skipping moves), training from a local rugby professional, the list goes on. Oh, and a lovely Xmas show and summer panto, which everyone who wants can be in one or the other. The only things which are not really open to everyone would be inter-school competitive stuff, mainly sports, where everyone can join in with training, but they do pick the better runners or players for the teams.

The only trouble is most of these things call for a "voluntary" donation, £5 there, £3 there and it does add up to quite a bit over the whole year. I think in a poorer area they would just not get the money in and many of these things wouldn't happen.

DS is very happy there, but (and for some people it would be a big BUT) he is basically coasting in the top sets for everything, because they don't have time to push the "clever" ones, when there are some kids struggling with the basics.

[cory]

mummytime Thu 10-Jun-10 20:13:28
"Actually I think the unfair thing is if you are labeled as G&T you get to do special things. If you are labeled as struggling (especially with behaviour) you get to do special things. If you are good at sport, you get special attention. But if you are firmly in the middle you don't get any special attention."

They'd have to be pretty spectacular special things to make up for the daily torture of struggling with special needs, or even the constant boredom of never getting work that actually challenged you or taught you anything new.

[Lynli]

Surely if you are in the middle everything is designed for you. For years we have recognised that some children need more help and no one would say that that is wrong. I think it is great that G&T have work that is suitable for them. I have a DD with learning difficulties and a DS who is G&T. With my DD everyone is interested in what she does and wants to help. With DS everyone resents his the time he spends on G&T activities and thinks it is elitism. All children should be helped to reach their own personal potential whatever that is IMO

[mummytime]

The G&T children at one school I know do activities like visiting the Guardian and then making their own newspaper. At another they are involved in the BBC School Report, so get the chance to interview famous people.
The kids who are struggling with Maths, at the first school have "shopping" trips to town. At the second spent a morning at Ikea practising maths.
If you are musical you get involved in choir tours, concerts etc. If you are good at sport you get out of school early to travel to places.
If you have behavioural issues, you get sports camps etc. (some organised by the local police).
These kind of activities are on top of any general enrichment open to all children (activity days, school trips, drama troupes coming in, visits by authors, visits to the theatre).

Of course if you are G&T and especially good at Science, the school may just offer you an Art camp. Which is a bit like a chocolate teapot. Or as my niece was offered a Saturday maths course, which not only too up Saturday's but was full of boys and so she didn't go for long.

IMO G&T is useful, but it should make the teachers differentiate more. Thinking in their planning how to stretch the able. And definitely not using the G&T as extra teachers for the less able (all the time). This was something I hated at school, as well as being intolerant and impatient so awful at helping anyhow.

I do still resent my junior school BTW because when they had to pick an inter-school quiz team they didn't pick me (on fairness issues). Although the only time I was picked first for teams was for quizzes. My one chance to shine, and they didn't let me on ideological grounds.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any special activities for the G&T, although what is G&T in one school can be middle of the road in another (another debating point). But I'd like a few random extras for those firmly in the middle too. (Actually I have heard teachers discussing this too.)

Now please don't flame me too much

[lovecheese]

mummytime - I think we are on the same wavelength.