Mumsnet Talk

Do they really exist?

Google blueskies or clearskies (I can't remember which)

clearskies in Derby

renewble energy

Has anyone on here got solar panels?

I want a solar panel, but I did some investigation and we've got the wrong sort of heating system

I think they should be put on all new homes

up to date info re grants here

I agree Iota - and if enough of us say it David Cameron will announce it as a new Tory policy!

And a little windmill - they run the lights on campus at uni.

I keep getting leaflets through the door about it. I would like to know if anyone has had one done. Mind you, we are stuffed anyway as we have a loft conversion and the other side of the roof is north facing so doesn't get the sun !

live in a block of flats at the moment but as soon as we get our own house [and I'm still waiting] we're going to get solar panels.

I looked at solar panels, and I am yet to be convinced that they make ecological sense.

I see a lot of wittering from the brain dead people at the BBC on SP's and how "the government should make them cheaper", alas being arts grads they see cost as simply the extortion of multi nationals.

Sad to say, a big chunk of their cost is energy input. Most cells are silicon based, made by procesess not unlike microprocessors.

They need to be very pure to work, and then doped with small amounts of very poisonoous substances. So nasty are these chemicals that billions are having to be spent on trying to fix the groundwatr in the areas where they've been made.

The "very pure" level is achieved by a process that is in effect taking sand, and melting in, then letting it cool down a bit, then metling it.
This happens repeatedly.

Solar cells have to be left outside (surprise
And that is bad for them, since they don't like rain or even heat. They also become less effective if dirty. Hence desert solar cells are actually much less efficient than you might think.

Thus it's really hard with solar cells even to get back as much energy as was used to make the damn things.
Storing electricity is very hard, and there exists no method known to man to do it efficiently. This is awkward for a power source that works during the day.

It is however improving, the optimistic curve I saw recently showed solar cellls being cheaper than oil around the turn of the century.
It assumed of course oil prices going up, and the few % a year improvement in cell efficiency to continue and not flatten off as you'd expect.

However rhere is a good argument for cells, if you are rich. We observe gross breakdown in an average western society occurs about every two centuries.

Thus if you have £10K to spare you can ensure a low grade power source that does not require your society to distribute energy to you. Cells can work for years without maintenance.

arts graduates again, eh DC? Scum of the earth. Silicon is problematic for a number of reasons, as you outline. There are much simpler solar panels, that a lot of people in poorer countries in Europe and elsewhere install on their rooves as a cost effective measure - solar panels that are just used to heat water. My dh's family home in Macedonia for example, has solar panels [silicon free] that heat the family's water from April to October, and use the sun in the winter to boost the supply. This cuts their electricity and gas bill hugely.

Of course the manufacturing of mobile phones and computers is poisonous beyond belief, but no one minds making them, even though they have a hugely negative impact on the environment, because they are so useful.

if solar panels were manufactured on a ;large scale say they were obligatory in new house build then they would become cheaper..and there would be more research into new technology if the mass market rewards were there..this could easily be achieved by putting them into building regs

I'm looking at having them on a triangular frame on the wall as I want to have a loft extension in the future

Sadly, zippitippitoes, silicon is already produced in large quantities and more is spent on research into making it better/cheaper than probably any other material we use.

ruty, I'm all for hot water from solar, and if course in hot countries it helps you cool down cheaply and with low impact. Storing heat is much easier than electricity.
For a while I've wondered if new housing developments should be forced to put pipes through the areas of tarmac they bring with them. You ought to be able to combine grey water and heat in a relatively cheap plant.
You could bury a great big tank, heat during summer, and let it out over winter. Soil would insulate quite well.

This is a pattern I see emerging across several types of environmental & resource issue.
To make a useful difference, we need to re-engineer whole systems, not try to stick bits on outdated infrastructure.
Homes can be made vastly more energy efficient, and the government plans to cause many to be built in coming years.
But...
The focus has been on cost mailny, with a little bit of greenery stuck on the side to keep the largely innumerate greenish MPs happy.
We need fully integrated systems in housing developments. This will add at least 25% to their cost.

I would also love a grey water recycling, rainwater harvesting system alongside my solar hot water

If I combined them with my wood burning stove to provide hot water and central heating in the winter - I'd be well away

But I can't afford it atm

I've seen the gear for grey water, and yes it's pricey, that's why we need to build new houses right.
Where do you get your wood ?

that's me dealt with then!

What about this then

the yellow house

Seems they are making it work. Not looked too closely at costs just did a quick skim, so I could be mistaken but at first glance it looks good.

that is really useful juule actually.

I scavenge some and buy some from a managed wood (we live in Norfolk - so there is quite a bit arround)

We've had solar panels fitted. they're brilliant.

How long does it actually take for them to of been worth the cost?