School places in the UK. Sydney mum.(41 Posts)
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I have been trying to get my son and daughter into a school in London. When I say London I mean London anywhere as have not worked out where we are going to rent yet. Trying to get into schools first then accomodation second. We are moving over from Sydney. My son moves into year 9 13+, my daughter into year 6. School fees are not a problem. My husband works in London so needs to be within 30-60 mins commute.
No luck so far, no schools will take them. Had to sit four entrance tests so far. Either we are too late applying for some or not at a good enough standard for the others. My son is in the top 5% at his school in Sydney ( top academic boys private school) and is a top debater and chess player in the area and is ranked number 1 in sabre fencing for U13 in Australia.
I am not adding these to show off. I am adding them to ask what more can I do. I understand he needs to get in line and a lot of you will say that, however this is beyond funny.
Are the number of school places in London so stretched that there are simply no places. Some schools will not even talk to me and say I should have applied two years ago.
Is our education system in Australia so far behind the UK that his results are ' not at a good enough standard' ?
Is a twelve year old in Australia who is consided to be smart and wins all the prizes not so bright afterall looking at him from the UK standards ?
Is a ten year old average Australian girl in year 5 considered to be below average in the UK?
Is the testing discriminating against overseas students who have a different curriculum emphasis at different age groups?
Funny how the UK is always trying to get Australian teachers to work in the UK. I am a high school teacher and have been told that I can easily work in London as there is a demand for Australian teachers.
Any way we will send them to the local state school but even here cannot find any information about applying. I don?t think we can apply until we have a local address and can contact the council.
Does anybody know of any schools that actually have places available for start Sep 2013 for two normal kids anywhere in the London area?
I think we may have to agree to disagree on some things, Xenia. If you
want a hugely academic school, selection does contribute - but there are some pretty good comprehensives and middling grammars; it can't be the only thing that makes a school good. The situation isn't totally different in private schools - Westminster is selective, but I don't think it would do as well as it does without good teachers and a good general ethos as well. School should be about more than just exams - though for extras and activities I suppose the fees at Westminster do help.
I've just been on the Sevenoaks website and they do have an alternative to Common Entrance for 13+, which they say is non syllabus specific - just general maths, English and some reasoning.This must be because it is not unusual to have potential pupils who have not been specifically prepared for CE. If it is too late this year, perhaps it could be considered for next year, if another school doesn't work out. Good luck again.
Westminster is just about the hardest school in England to get into and is first for A levels rankings.ft.com/secondary-schools/secondary-schools-2012. Habs, North London, MTS which I know because my children were there are a bit easier but still tricky, often top 10/20. They you roll down from there. Mill hill someone mentioned - easier to get into. Aldenham where people often go if they couldn't get anywhere else and about 700th in school league tables although that doe snot mean those schools are not good for the children who go there.
We were told this was a boy who had not passed exams for London schools presumably St Paul's Westminster etc. He might be in the Dulwich College level or below that are plenty more.
I do not agree that in London schools are very good if they take all comers and no one much wants to get there. I think that is a good indicator that they are not so good just as in the state system.
Some of the things you say are quite strange, Xenia. My brother and I
went to Westminster School , a school which is usually considered quite
hard to get into, but are far from being brilliantly academic. Still it is a excellent school, if perhaps better for the relatively bright, which has some support for dyslexia as well as for children who find academics no problem, as well as lots of art, drama and music. Probably overscribed, although I think they do accept applications for bursaries reasonably close to the deadline, and certainly some boys coming into the Under School at 11 from state schools are not in the system for pre-registration. Bursary and scholarship exams are certainly competitive though, and it is sometimes possible for intelligent children to underperform if they haven't been specifically prepared - particularly at 13. Xenia is correct in saying that entry at 13 to well known UK private schools is based on Common Entrance, and their may be differences from the syllabus in Australia. Many international schools may not be so overscribed, do to the turnover of an international population, but still have strong academics and good results for University entrance. Schools can be perfectly good schools and not hugely overscribed.
If you are open to North London try Aldenham in Elstree for your boy and girl. You should get a year 6 place for your girl and it is likely that they may accommodate your boy. Not the most academic school but does well up to GCSE, you might want somewhere else for 6th form but there is much more choice as people move then but it has amazing facilities and is a very strong sports school. Also try Mill Hill school, not Mill Hill county, that is a different school. The prep of Mill Hill is Belmont and if they can't take your DD There are several more state and private schools which should take her for a year.
You just need to go a bit further out and go further down the league tables in terms of how good the school is. Every areea of London has schools very very hard to get into like St Paul's and perhaps Haberdashers boys and girls and North London C where mine went and then there are some easier to get a place and those private schools which will take almost anyone as long as they can pay.
May be live in St Albans (very quick commute to London) on very fast trains and there will be lots of private schools near there the children may get into. My boys did common entrance last year - the schools spend a lot of time preparing them for it so it is no reflection on your son if he has not been prepared. Pity you did not have 2 years of notice of the move so you could have got the children ready for English schools.
fwiw, you wouldn't have any trouble getting into private school out here in the sticks. Not yr9, anyway.
There's a new private school opening in SW London, Kew House, which might be worth investigating.
Don't go near Portland Place. It's where the very un-academic and those with behavioural issues that mean no other day school will touch them, end up.
Come have a look at Ashford School for both children. Just 35min from London and even closer to Canary Wharf. Some Aussies have just joined and the school is run by an Aussie.
I'm sorry you are having trouble. The UK private system sometimes
can be quite hard to get into, even with bright children, if you are not already registered in advance, and this could be the problem here. I would
be persistent, as places do come up, but it is generally easier to find a place at the last minute with an international school, as they realize people can be transferred without much warning. If you are considering the IB, TASIS in Surrey has a good reputation, and there is also Southbank School, although I don't know that much about it. Sevenoaks also does the
IB, although it could be overscribed. Marymount International might be another possibility, although quite strongly Catholic. There is also The American School, although it is American curriculum only, not IB, so may not be for you. Several state schools have also started the IB, although I think more in the suburbs than central London. It might be worth enquiring. Good luck and I hope it all works out.
From my experience teaching Australian primary aged children is that they are often a year behind their UK counterparts, to some extent due to the different start date of the academic year in Australia.
If your husband is willing to have a longer commute then consider schools a bit further out in Surrey, e.g. I work in a prep school which would accept your daughter on the surrey/hants border, there are loads of prep schools within a few miles radius all of which I imagine would have a space for a new entrant and there are a number of senior schools that would take your son that would accept the lower tier CE papers if your son wasn't ready for the normal tiers of entry e.g. Cranleigh.
Do you want somewhere that offers fencing as you will probably need a 13+ school. With that level of skill I would phone up a few and throw yourself on their mercy. Places like Epsom that are sporty and not Kings or St Pauls level of academic may find you a day place. Then you can send dd to Sutton or Surbiton High and try to get her into the same school at 13.
I really dont think occasional places come up that frequently at the superselective 11+ schools and they would be quite hard to adjust to as well I think.
Come and have a look at Ashford School in Kent. Easy 35min commute to St Pancras or less to Stratford. Beautiful countryside.
Regarding school standards, I was at school in Sydney during the 80s and have now been in the UK over 10 years. Unless your son's current school is one of the few independent boys' schools that works well ahead of typical curricula (Sydney Grammar and Knox spring to mind) then my guess - and it's only a guess - is that he is likely to be "behind" common entrance levels in science and languages, though possibly not in maths if it's one of his strengths. I know my daughter (now at a co-ed non-London prep) will be covering some maths topics by the end of this year - year 5 - that I didn't do until year 7. The science teaching both my children are receiving (year 3 and year 5) is way more structured than anything I had prior to year 7 and that has to lead to more detailed work being possible in year 7-8 for 13+ entrance tests.
I hope some of the suggestions above lead to progress in your school search - must be very stressful.
Where will your DH be working? It might be worth moving out of London into commuter land! I'm in Herts and my DH commutes into London. Lots of school around here - our year 6 (state school) has places at the moment.
I think many schools make exceptional arrangements for those applying from abroad so "normal" timetable and CE may well not apply.
Zita where abouts in London does DH need to get to? It would help with narrowing down areas.
Yes, try the se london schools as wishi'dbeenatigermum suggests. Dulwich college, st dunstans, and you could also try whitgift in croydon for your ds. Sydenham girls for your dd... Pm me if you want any advice on the dulwich area, i'm a kiwi but dh is a nsw/act aussie and sil and pils are in sydney....
(Disclaimer, i only know about se london schools, sw london is a whole different ball game!)
Ps if you are catholic there are two new independent secondaries due to open in clapham/ croydon later in the year, see www.pactschools.org.uk/
You may have more chance at an indie co-ed than separate single sex schools. And probably more chance at a school slightly out of London than in London which is notoriously competitive! Sutton is an area worth considering, there is Sutton High GDST (to be frank, any GDST School is going to be pretty good and probably less expensive than many other indies) and there are great boys grammar schools which may have some occasional places. I believe the choice of state schools in Kent is also great. OFSTED website will give you some idea of the quality of the school, but best to get in touch with the LEA (local education authority...unlike in NSW there is not 'state education department) who can sometimes place your children on a provisional list (and you then have to prove you fulfil residency requirements within about 6-8 weeks...depending on the LEA)
I am a teacher who is originally from Sydney so please PM if you think I could be helpful!
Yes, Radnor House and Claremont Fan Court could be options and have places - you could always go on a waiting list for the others (for an occasional vacancy), who might even have a place in September! Things do happen - many case of parents getting a call a few weeks before beginning of term or a few weeks INTO the term with offer of a place. The issue of course is that you'd lose deposit and a term's fees if you already accepted somewhere else and move. But I know people who did that.
Otherwise, can do Year 9,10, 11 at second choice school, get some tutoring to get to right standard, get good grades at GCSE and then apply to a better school for 6th form when there is always movement even in top tier schools.
On your point whether a bright Australian 13 year old is not as bright in the Uk system, it's a matter of the curriculum. If they haven't covered something that was tested in your four tests, he can't do it! Unfortunately, they don't test IQ (VR/non VR) at 13+ so if he didn't cover a Maths topic, he wouldn't be able to answer things on a test. Similar for Science and French/Spanish. Normally, for day schools at 13+ Maths, English, Science and Modern Language get tested. So if you get to the point of sitting a test with some more school, makes sense to buy some KS3 textbooks (year 7,8,9) and see what's covered. Or get ISEB revision guides for Common Entrance - it would have all the syllabus covered by prep school students by end of Year 8. Also, look at ISEB scholarship papers - you can buy these from Galore Park.
Zita, try not to give up and go for a less academic school for your son - any academic private school should be happy to have him! I don't think it's such a great idea to just go for any non-academic school just to get a place. Ibstock Place, for example, would be a second or even 3rd choice for people with academic children so it's not the case of a mixed abilities school, e.g. like some boarding ones are, where there are enough kids to make a fantastic top stream.
I think you will have problems with London schools who do pre-test in Year 6 (11+) and then give a conditional offer, subject to Common Entrance in June (CE). Such schools are King's College Wimbledon, St.Paul's Boys, Epsom College, etc.
However, there are plenty of schools that just to 11+ and 13+ in January. You would have missed the test day in January, but they potentially might have places if waiting list moves, etc. Schools like this are Alleyn's (co-ed), Eltham College, Trinity, Whitgift, Dulwich College (I think it's not common entrance but not sure). These are South/SW London which is the area I know about. But I think in North London, it's Highgate and Haberdasher's Boys. There is also Caterham (just out of London, in Surrey, great co-ed school). What I would do is write a letter (rather than call), outlining all achievements (sporting and otherwise) and academic track record, get a reference from the Headmaster, scan all the diplomas, etc and either courier to the Headmaster of School in question or scan and e-mail. And THEN follow up with a call. This will let them see for themselves that they are getting an asset that will help their league tables and contribute to school community.
Regarding your daughter, you can look at Woldingham (Surrey, 35 min from London, it's boarding and day). Or what I would do is put her into a prep that goes to 13+. Lots of girls and co-ed preps go to 13+, but some girls and boys leave at 11+, especially in London. So they should have spaces. That way she can get used to UK system and then transfer to a secondary school at 13+. My daughter is at a school like that. We'll go for 11+ academic schools, if she doesn't get in, she'll stay until 13+ and try again.
Schools like that are Broomwood Hall (girls only, my daughter is there), Thomas's (several sites - Clapham, Battersea, Fulham, Kensington), Newton Prep. These are all in SW London as that's the only one I know about but I am sure there are similar schools in other parts of London.
Also for your daughter Surbiton High has always had a reputation for moving heaven and earth to make room for desperate expats
I wouldn't give up on trying, at DDs' very academic top 10 school, in DD1s year there was absolutely no movement, and no places came up until sixth form, which would be the norm, but as a result of some difficult characters pupils were moving out of DD2's year all the time, every class ended up with 2 or 3 spaces from Year 8 on. It did mean a few incoming expats had a chance to take up places. The pupils who left found places at schools like Latymer and Godolphin and Latymer. IME the private schools love expats too and will make allowances to get them into the school community. It is worth hanging in there!
Thanks for all the suggestions I am going to start sending emails to schools mentioned in the posts. Hopefully something will come up for us.
Great reposnses. Thanks. We did try Ipstock, Kingston Grammar, Emmanuel, Harrodian ( still has to sit test in Sydney but told hardly any places for year 9 London school for boys ( will not exam overseas), St pauls ( would not talk to us). Thinking maybe going IB ( Dwight - North London School). Plus I rang a whole heap of others as I got desperate and told bascially not to bother.
Maybe we will save on the priavte school fees and rent right next to a really good state school so they can get in.
Anyway I feel a bit better that my kids are not that dumb and that othesr have the same problems. I hope as you suggest that evnetually they will get in somewhere. We will hold off renting until something comes up.
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