"almost all level 7s" in year 8 - is that normal? worrying me about my own child

(53 Posts)
schoolquestion Sun 21-Aug-11 07:37:42

Friend's DS and my DS were both borderline when it came to the 11+. Friend's DS passed (just) and is at grammar, my DS failed (just) and is at local high school. We have been very happy with the high school and, I thought, with DS's progress. However, friend told me last week that her DS had achieved level 7s in almost all his subjects. My DS got 6c for English and Maths, then 5s for everything else (mix of5as, bs, & cs). As children that performed similarly at primary, I am worried that DS is slipping behind - how normal is it for children to get all level 7s in year 8? Friend's DS is not in top set for anything, so presumably the brighter grammar kids are getting even higher grades? It's not so much that I'm competitive with the other child (re-reading my post it sounds like it) but it's more that I'm worried that DS isn't making as good progress as we thought. He is at the top of top set for most of his subjects, and yet there is a huge gap between his levels and those of a child in bottom sets at grammar.

Startail Mon 03-Dec-12 08:55:47

I DD endeared Y9 with L7 for maths and 6s for everything else that matters (she's no linguist and has given up MFL).

She's easily a L7 scientist, but dyslexic and didn't finish the very writing heavy exam.

I suspect she'll do OK at GCSE, but not amazingly.

I'm not terribly worried as I suspect she will do at least as well if not better at A level.

Theas18 Mon 03-Dec-12 08:13:41

Not read all the thread, but all 7s in year 8 (barring MFL which is always lower as they have only a year of that ) is not unusual for grammar kids I think. IIRC excluding PE (where is very average LOL) DD2 got pretty much all 7s of various sorts at the end of yr 8 with a teacher assessed level 8 in music. This isn't unusual and she doesn't feel its any great deal. They all hope for level 8's in maths/english at the end of KS3 and lots get them.

HOWEVER do ask if they are being assessed at the higher level at your DS school if they have the potential. It should not be, but could be, that they don't expect 7s/8s and so aren't being offered the paper that go so high in exams.

Got to wonder though if grammars are extending long term progress or just achieving full potential earlier. THat is a phillosophical thought for 8.12 on Monday!

3b1g Sun 02-Dec-12 15:34:59

DS1 is in the top sets (second set for Maths) at a partially selective comprehensive which is comparable to a grammar school in most respects. He is working at similar levels to your son. I don' think you have anything to worry about.

losingtrust Fri 30-Nov-12 17:25:49

They do get pushed ahead at our school. All those with 7 and above for maths were put into an accelerated group to presumably do gcse early then further maths and start a level work early. My ds did not make it into that group but could still get an A so not overly concerned. I missed group too but still got the A and as many have said kids change and ds may pick up a lot more later this year or next or drop down. Your friends son may platter out.

Pyrrah Fri 30-Nov-12 17:17:17

I imagine it's possible... there is a primary school in central London (and not leafy in the slightest) that gets 20% Level 6 in Maths at KS2 and around 90% get Level 5 or above.

I don't think you need to worry though - it's not as if he is behind where he should be at this stage. If the syllabus hasn't been covered then you can't score any higher.

The only sad thing is that with only a few exceptions you only get a chance to be pushed ahead in the private or grammar systems.

losingtrust Fri 30-Nov-12 17:14:26

Sorry he is now year 8 the same as yours.

losingtrust Fri 30-Nov-12 17:13:43

My ds in top stream of comp and is now in year. Was level 6 in the main ones maths English science plus geography plus level 5s in etg else except pe and mfl that were both 4s. He got good results. He said some people got 4s and some of his friends got 7s in maths but only 5s in English so very varied. He is still above average and some are struggling to get a 4. I have a friends with kids at same school in same year and we never talk about it. I would just ignore your friend's sons levels as I hate it when parents brag. All I can say is slot if parents were bragging about their kids getting 3s in ks1 and went very quiet at ks2.

AyUpMiDuck Fri 30-Nov-12 15:44:20

I'm revisiting the subject of school grades because I have just received DS's Year 8 Progress Report and it all seems very smoke and mirrors. Is it just DS's school that sends out a summary of levels with very little explanation? And how do these levels help to predict GCSE grades? Can anyone enlighten me?
I could do with a steer....

btw he has a mix of 4s, 5s and 6s and a 3 for German which he started this term. He is in the top set for the 3 streamed subjects - I am not overly impressed with his marks because he got 5s in year 6. Does this mean he has made hardly any progress in 2 years? I'm really confused.

schoolquestion Thu 25-Aug-11 21:15:57

that's as maybe talkingpeace, but surely it's ok for us to want our DCs to be doing as well as they should be (for their own individual ability).

TalkinPeace2 Thu 25-Aug-11 20:26:37

Lynette,
DD is unusual in that she is (genuinely ) at the top of her year - just finished year 8
the marks were 'widely spread'
but all heading upwards at varying rates from varying start points
and I TRUST the staff to raise if they think she's not hitting it in certain areas
AND
the pastoral system has allowed me to kick off about poor teachers.
I'm happy - everything until GCSE day is flexible anyway
and after a degree, GCSE's are past history
and as an FCCA, nobody fives a stuff about either my degree or the fact that I got 51:52:50 in my finals. I passed so hmmm.

Fine scale points are dust on the horizon in the big scheme of things.

LynetteScavo Thu 25-Aug-11 20:20:57

Now, I would be worried if my DS wasn't achieving as highly in English as other subjects....(like the child mentioned in the OP) Children are taught so much Literacy, to make sure they do well in their SATs in Y6, I would presume they should be still achieving higher grades in Y8.

DS has just finished Y7 and his English, Maths and Science are much higher than his Spanish and Art (his weakest subjects) and his Geog' and History aren't quite as good.

Can I expect to see a leveling off in subjects next year?

schoolquestion Wed 24-Aug-11 23:03:52

thanks Milliways, very reassuring, and well done to your DD indeed - you must be very proud x

Milliways Wed 24-Aug-11 19:39:30

Another voice of reassurance here smile

My DD failed to get into our Grammar. She got level 7's in the 3 year 9 sats, but had a whole mix at end of year 7. She did very well in GCSEs and A levels and is now at Cambridge.

She found things got better from year 8+ when they were set for more subjects so higher sets could progress faster.

schoolquestion Wed 24-Aug-11 18:42:36

the grammar school does seem to give more homework than DS's school from what I can tell. If it had been a 7 in one or maybe 2 subjects, I wouldn't even have posted. It's the "7s in almost everything" ( except English and Spanish) that got me worried.But as someone else said, maybe friend's DS is just flying at grammar school and taken off this year. Very pleased for him to be doing so well, don't get me wrong. It was more the huge gap that seems to be opening up between top set high school and lower sets @ grammar. But I'm repeating myself!! I think a lot of the other posters on here have helped me see my DS is doing ok, that is the main thing. I appreciate all the posts.

mattellie Wed 24-Aug-11 14:03:05

“My grammar school dd actually gets less homework than her high school friends. Her school's line is that they get huge amounts of work done in school, so less homework's necessary.”

What seeker says. We have 1 at GS and 1 at secondary modern and this is exactly what both schools say. The 1 at secondary modern is given extension work in and out of class to enable them to push on to a higher level.

Also, perfectly possible for a child to be outstanding in one area – our Y8 DC has represented the school in 9 different sports and is county level in at least 2 and got a level 8 for their PE in Y8 (teacher assessment only though!). If high marks are across the board, I would be a little more wary of them as that is more unusual.

qumquat Wed 24-Aug-11 12:12:29

I didn't give a single level 7 to any of my Yr 8s this year, so I'd say he's doing pretty well!

schoolquestion Tue 23-Aug-11 18:48:49

thanks both. We live in a selective area, so high schools are for those who didn't pass the 11+ (mainly, there are some very bright children there who didn't sit the 11+ at all for various reasons) So it's not a comprehensive, as the top c. 1/3 will be at grammar schools, not high schools. If friend's DS was in top sets at the grammar, I wouldn't be concerned at all. It just worried me that if a child who is in lowers set at grammar is getting all 7s, then I would question my DS's progress in top sets at the high school, as teachers say he is doing really well, is at top, but it seems a big gap between his progress and those of child in lower sets at grammar.

kickassangel Tue 23-Aug-11 14:34:05

ok, so those levels will have been assessed internally and say as much about the marking of the school/teacher as it does about the student.

the only thing that would concern me is that if your son is at the top of the top set, i would expect that to be more than level 5/6 borderline. i'd expect a top set to be hitting high 6 to 7 by the end of year 8, IF it's a town comprehensive without any other factors. if, however, the grammar automatically gets all the 'best' students, then the comp.'s results will be skewed.

btw, level 5 at end of year 9 is the target for approx. 80% of the nation's cohort, not an average.

<used to run ks3 english dept for several years btw>

TalkinPeace2 Tue 23-Aug-11 14:22:07

DD is in the top few in her year (cohort of 290) ; she did get mostly 7's at year 8
BUT it is teacher assessment. One of her 6's was for a top subject but the teacher marked the whole class down because they muck about.
I can imagine that a GS will be under pressure to report progress no matter what so the marks may be more optimistic than those from a comp.

schoolquestion Mon 22-Aug-11 21:43:47

Thanks Gramercy - your son is doing really well!

gramercy Mon 22-Aug-11 13:30:08

I have just had a look at ds's report and he got level 7s for English, Maths, History, Geography, but for Science and French Level 6s - as they start from a lower position when they start secondary school. The accompanying explanation of levels stated that no pupil would achieve a level 7 for French unless they were completely exceptional.

We won't mention what levels ds got for Art and PE !!!

cjo1 Sun 21-Aug-11 20:36:05

um I think someone might be fibbing. In my department we awarded one level 7 to a year 8 of 161 pupils. And Ofsted said our marking was exemplary ( not that that means much).

Your son's marks are very good. Average is level 5 at end of year 9 so he is already achieving what he should be. Well done schoolquestion's son. smile

schoolquestion Sun 21-Aug-11 20:28:20

LOL MrsShrek!!

ime there is a good bit of bullshitting augmenting of grades going on in the private and grammar sector, they have to justify their existence don't they wink Your DS, assuming he was L4 at Y6, is doing absolutely fine and
his levels are likely to be more accurate than the other kid's
<cynic>

schoolquestion Sun 21-Aug-11 18:38:54

wow, so many responses, apologies if I don't reply to them all one-by one, but thank you all, it's left me feeling much better about DS's levels. I do appreciate that children develop at different rates, and that it doesn't mean much really at this stage, but was just worried. DS got 5 for maths and 4s for English/Science in Yr 6. Friend's DS got 5s for maths & science and 4 for English. So I could undertand him getting 7s for maths and science in yr 8, was just surprised about things like history, geography, languages etc.

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