Mumsnet Talk

I keep reading about MRAs inundating MN.

Never met one in real-life and the only ones in the media are F4J who are treated as a joke.

I've met a few Dads who want to see more of their children.

So are they just Internet warriors or do they really exist in real life?
And what are they after?

You

They want you, naked and smeared in blancmange

Are they blind then?

Blind trolls interesting...

I am jealous.

They do not want me naked and smeared in blancmange.

I have asked. Repeatedly.

You have to force them Pan. I keep mine down a pit.

Hi Truckulentre,

I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but if you are interested in finding out more about Men's rights then wikipedia has a good page about MRA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_Rights

While I wouldn't say I was a MRA, I am the Father of two young Boys so I keep an eye out for matters affecting males.

That wiki page is a bit of an eye-opener though!

Chris - v. interseting reference there and thanks for it. Some of it resonates, and some of it I could drive a wagon-train through - but I'll give it a further read again.

yes SGM - there is always that likely possibility.

Chris42.

As far as men's rights go.
I have a son the advice (from experience) I will give him.

When you have children, be involved from day 1, don't think mummy knows best you are just as capable, don't become the sole earner, don't become financially dependent on someone, both of you cut your hours and make sacrifices, do the school run, go to the school plays etc. Be with someone who earns a similar salary and has similar views on childcare and working.

For my daughter, virtually the same.

It's a bit tricky when you believe in something, but the other people who believe in it are obvious nutters.

Wiki articales aren't always the most illuminating, and this one does come wit hthe health warning at the top that the 'balance' of this article is disputed.

I think it draws out some worthwhile points such as violence to males on circumcision, the acceptance of violence toward males ( albeit this is being done massively by other males), the under-reporting of DV against men, the shorter life expectancy, the levels of suicides, and the increasing under-performance of boys at school. I see this because a friend of mine who is a schools mentor notes that in the schools where he works your chances of being excluded leap massively if you are a black male.

But, none of this is new, and it is absurd for any MRAs to suggest that these phenomemon can be ascribed to discrimination against them as practised by any woman.

But the rest of it is a bit of a poor effort - large parts of it a bit laughable eg media portrayals, reproductive rights ( WTF?)and the wages section. Overall it appears to be written for the 'hard-of-thinking'with dubious references, and highly selective quotes.

So I, for one, didn't find it an eye-opener - just a raising of an eyebrow ( 'cause I can do that) to see how generally gullible the authors hope people will be.

For the record, I did say I wasn't a MRA or agreed 100% with what was in that Wiki page. I just answered a question and pointed someone to some further information.

From what I've seen Men's rights and Women's rights often seem to be trying to obtain the same objective (ie some form of equality) but they are coming at it from different perspectives. No doubt both sides will strongly disagree with my view of that!!

Pan, I don't think MRAs are claiming all discrimiation against them is by Women. Again my perspecitve of this that they acknowledge most of it has historically been by other Men. I think I disagree with you on the media portrayals of men - a lot of adverts seem to use the lazy and tired stereotype of men being lazy, idiotic or incompetent. I have to say this concerns me for what impression it gives my 2 sons.

Truckulentre, good advice for both your children. I actually love the school run and always miss work for school plays, etc. It probably hasn't done my career any good but I have a much more happy life as a result so it is well worth it.

You might be interested in this article: The Solution to MRA Problems? More Feminism

Truck - not sure about the advice regards not being financially dependent on someone. It can happen in the most successful and happy of relationships if the pair agree that having a SAHP is best for them and the children. It requires trust on both sides, and can cause vulnerability, but isn't something to be avoided for its own sake IMO.

<biased as about to become SAHM>

No, you're right you didn't actually say that you are an MRA. BUT realising that:
1. You use cap letters for Father and Boys is noteworthy.
2. You've indicated a fairly week wiki article has 'opened your eyes' as if it is informative and convincing when it is neither, and,
3. You haven't posted anywhere else on MN about anything else, atleast since 1/9/11.

"if it looks like one and posts like one..."

sorry if I am mistaken.

Pan, "1. You use cap letters for Father and Boys is noteworthy."

Eh?? Quite a bizarre response by you there Pan. If you look at my response again you'll see I also capitalised 'Women' as well - is that noteworthy? It's probably bad English on my part (I went to a rubbish comprehensive) but I thought names, places, people etc. were always capitalised. I do it all the time when I'm writing. You are the first Person to ever comment on it.

2. I said I didn't 100% agree with it. What more do you want me to say?

You are mistaken by the way, but I really couldn't care less what some random person on a thread thinks of me. Someone asked a question and I helped to answer it. I'm a bit surprised at some of the negative comments that's all.

Anyway, I'm off to ask about 7 seaters now. Is that ok with You?

Errrr...go on then.

Thanks, just did!

There's a ton of sites out there that MRAs use as resources.

AVoicefor Men
The Spearhead
Anti-Misandry
Barbarosaaa's Channel on YouTube

Just to name a few. The Wikipedia page was actually re-written recently by a pro-feminist group, and they placed a lock on it to keep it from being altered again. Performing a search on the moderators on the Talk page tells you everything you need to know. If you really want to know what MRAs stand for then go the above sites.

Just a quick four'pennorth on this. I think the whole "Men's Rights" tends to boil down to one major issue - contact orders.

I don't have any first-hand experience of this (as an atheist I don't have an invisible imaginary friend to whom I can offer thanks, but would if I did) although I have friends who have been the contact ordeal. The constantly recurring them is this - father has to go to court to get parental responsibility/contact order and generally has to pay his own legal bills or represent himself, pay for paternity test costs etc. before he can see his own children at all. Mother is often unwaged and on legal aid, implacably hostile, has a new partner and wants to cut the father out of the children's life altogether. After a long legal struggle and a lot of throwing of dirt by the mother, father eventually gets miserly contact (e.g. half a day at the weekend each fortnight). Result is sh!tty, punctuated relationship with his own children. Even then, the contact order is often ignored and contact is cancelled at short notice for no good reason. That then results in further trips to court, ruinous cost and lost contact with children. Mother glides gently along on indifference and buouyed-up by legal aid while the father has to bankrupt himself to pay lawyers or go through the wringer trying to represent himself with a hostile barrister harranguing him. Court gives mother nothing more than a telling-off for breaching the contact order. In the meantime, mother tells children that their father doesn't want to see them, tears up his letters and cards to them unseen and alienates the children even further from him.

My experience is that these are generally decent blokes whose relationship with the mother has broken down for reasons not of their making, who pay their maintenance on time and genuinely want to be good fathers, but are denied the chance. Sad to say, I think the ones who put on the batman outfits are the ones who retain their sanity in this kafkaesque process.

Just saying...

My take on this as a Dad who has his children a lot of the time.

The courts stick with the status-quo.

So if you want to see your children a lot post divorce, don't become the sole earner, split the child-care 50-50, change the nappies, go to parent evenings,doctors, dentists etc. have time off work when your children are sick.

That would be my advice.

Mumsnet is probably not the best place to discuss this, sexism etc.

Generally these sort of ideas take at least a generaion to gain acceptance - or at least discusssion without kneejerk abuse, and perhaps more importantly abrobrium for the abuser.

I doubt any MRA would be stupid enough to show up here.

Mens rights activists have got absolutely nothing to do with promoting rape and the poster who hinted towards that earlier in this thread has a warped mind.

Fathers like mothers have every right to fight for their childrens rights and their own rights to see them without being branded an abuser or a controller.

Do they exist in real life?

Go and sit in any magistrates court in England and head for the family court section (The cases are rarely if ever on display it's all hush hush) there you will see father after father applying to court for the right to see his child/ children.

And some of you lot mock that fact by associating these fathers with rape enablers and apologists.

Get a life.