Mumsnet Talk

Have namechanged for this.

Also not sure whether it would be better in 'self-employed' as it's a job question probably more than anything.

Title says it all really - getting increasingly disillusioned. The writing isn't hard, it's the people I often have to deal with.

I've been doing this for 5 years though - I don't think I'm qualified for anything else any more. I left the job I was qualified for ten years ago, then went into something else, then this.

Anyone else been here?

And I know that all of my posts will probably be full of typos and someone will say that I'm not qualified for this job either, but this is my time off, go easy!

What kind of writing? If you are a journalist, then I can fully understand. If so, why not try a different kind of writing, one where you have more creative freedom?

As a creative writer, I have been through much angst and thought of giving up - mainly through health. But if you love the work, it will claim you again.

I'd actually really like to go back to journalism - that was the job before this one - but now doesn't seem like a good time for that either . . .

I'm a ghost writer.

I'm going to get attacked for being the Devil's spawn aren't I?

Not at all, I will. Yes, journalism not only has a bad name at the moment (thanks - News of the World) but it is a tough industry.

Have you got the financial ability to take a break? Or would you consider doing your own writing?

No financial ability for anything!

Don't really want to do my own writing - have done a bit before, but doesn't really interest me.

I think I'm wondering whether I've just had all of the enthusiasm for writing knocked out of me by publishers and clients alike.

Also - is there a self-employed line of work, with few start up costs, that seems a natural progression?

Oh dear you do sound disillusioned. There are plenty of avenues such as book reviews, articles - but none of it is exactly secure 9-5 work. What you need to do is a bit of networking. Do you belong to the NUJ or The Society of Authors? What you need is other writers to enliven you - even an online forum.

You're right - I'm a miserable cow just now!

Yes, I'm in the SoA. I think that the issue may be that ghosting is really tricky at the moment, so the others ghosts I know are pretty much all in the same boat. Fees are so much lower than when I started. Recently, I was offered an advance which was 96% less than my first one 5 years ago. Sadly, that's not a typo . . .

I don't do vanity ghosting or charge clients, which is where there is a lot of money, but I just couldn't go down that route.

How is the fiction market? Is that what you've always done?

Fiction market sadly seems to be shrinking. Trying, with a number of other writers, to fight the short story cuts at Radio 4. My biggest income has actually in the past come from short story competitions - a short story, if I am lucky, may pay me £200-300. But a competition win can be much higher, plus the publicity. But it is so erratic and some very good friends of mine, who are widely published and prize-winning - they seem to be struggling.

But it is worth looking in your Writers' Handbook to try and get some writing commissions. Journalism is fairly easy, let's be honest. Much less head scratching than creative writing.

That fee drop is astonishing. You need to try and get the passion back, but it's hard when the rewards are so poor.

I feel quite guilty even chatting to you like this because I sound so mercenary - but the reality is that it's my job and I need to make a living at it. There's less of a problem when the passion is there or when I feel I'm really helping someone get their story out, but it all seems to have fizzled recently.

I know that I've been really lucky as everything I've written has been published, but some days there is no writing at all, there's just dealing with people, dealing with their backtracking, dealing with them changing their minds etc etc etc.

I certainly made much more in journalism for much less work. I'm not asking for your bank details with all of this, honest!

Have you won competitions? How exciting!

Making a living out of writing is very hard at the best oif times but is getting worse all the time. So many of my friends have to do a whole patchwork of things to make ends meet...series -write to order stuff, book consultancy work, teaching, mentoring.

That said, I do make a living from fiction writing. I write crime fiction. My advances and royalties have paid me comfortably so far. But I am prolific. I write a book a year. Also I have lots of foreign sales, large print sales, audio sales etc etc...it all adds up.

I think crime fiction is one of the only growth areas, isn't it? Do you have to do an awful lot of publicity or can you stay anonymous?

A book a year sounds amazing - I would love to do that. This year, I'll be doing 6!

I went to a writers' development course and I was told I have a 'portfolio career' - very polite spin on wordfactory's better phrase: 'patchwork'.

Have either of you been to the Reading Crime Festival? People like Val McDermid go, or Mark Billingham. There are talks by forensic experts - it's great.

Come on people, let's invigorate our passion for writing!

Sounds good wordfactory - you work hard, clearly...

Yes, invigoration! I'm all for that . . .

I tend not to go to festivals - I know quite a lot of writers who talk at them so tend to just moan to them when needs be anyway! I wonder if I know you wordfactory - we could all be anyone on this . . .

When I do go to things like that, it's for non-work-related stuff - I know absolutely nothing about art and art history (really nothing), so I've been relaxing with that type of thing.

So, where do we get this invigoration and fizz?

six a year - faints.

You are the word factory clearly.

How dod you get so much work though? For a lot of my friends it's getting the work, not doing it that's the problem.

As for crime, yes it is growing (and romance I believe) but you do have to do a fair bit of publicity to be honest.

I think there's always ghosting work because there are always genres which sell - and there are always lots of people who want their stories out there. I don't do celebs though, just the much-maligned real-life stuff. People contact me through my website mostly, or they get my name from the acknowledgements in books they've read.

If anyone wants to do ghosting, they won't be short of clients. In fact, I've usually got some hanging around that I can't fit in!

I've heard all sorts about the romance people!

What a lot of exclamation marks I've littered this thread with.

Very out of character. I do apologise.

Wow.
I suppose I had never really thought of the logistics of it.

Do you get a one off payment from the client? The publisher? Do you get royalties?

Just being nosy.

Be as nosy as you like - never quite understand people keeping quiet about it all.

I don't take payments from clients ever. I only take on projects that my agent and I think stand a really good chance of getting publisher interest; they have to be really commercial. So, then the advance and royalties are split with the client.

I do take a risk in that I don't charge to do the proposals, which are up to 10000 words and take a fair bit of time - if it doesn't get an offer, I've done that work for nothing. Some ghosts charge up front for those.

Just PM me if you want to know anything that you think I might not want to go public on!

Could you do something like freelance editing for a while? Mentoring?

Mentoring? How would I go about that?

I'll send you a DM

I hope that's a Daily Mail!

I hate the Daily Mail. Mysogynistic, racist, benefit bashing...

But they have Liz Jones - that's worth a lot.

Belle - Gregory and Company is the agent I was trying to remember when I was waffling on. They have in-house editors/polishers I think.