Are we all obligated to teach our children to intervene?

[HotWok]

Hi,

I just read this article on bullying, it's very good:

thebaffler.com/salvos/bullys-pulpit

I especially like this line:

"Studies also show that in general, if one or two onlookers object, then bullies back off."

This matches my experience, I once so a co-worker being bullied by his boss, all I did was stand up and look straight at his boss and he backed down immediately. I think children should be taught to spot bullies and intervene safely.

Yes we are. I actually think this is something that we seem to be missing in general. I was always taught to stand up for underdogs...I was a confident child once I hit about 12/13 years old and always stuck up for others but many kids are afraid of being next.

If we taught our DC that bullies will stop if one or two people speak up, then maybe things will improve.

Very interesting.

Ds2 was bullied in year 5/6 of a small primary school. There was a big tendency from the school to downplay the bully's role - with ds2 described as being over anxious. I had to point out that I'd find it difficult to go into somewhere each day if I knew that someone in the room was going to call me a cunt everytime I walked past them, and I was a lot older than ten. The very naice headmistress almost passed out (but still did bugger all).

There also developed a narrative amongst the school staff that ds2 was unlikely to cope with the large grammar school he was heading off to. That socially he was too delicate & too reactive & too anxious. His year group was going from under 20 to nearly 200.

Well, he loved it from day one. He's still had the occasional person having a go at him (he's physically small so a bit of a target), but because the school is large he can easily get away. He discovered early on that he can use humour to deflect & turn any shitty remarks back on aggressors (& when he does that others tend to join in leaving the one having a go looking idiotic) & two years in has had no problems at all with bullying - is very happy. But the bit about no escape & holding everyone together stood out to me. That definitely was an issue at primary school.

DS3 sees everything as very black & white & although very quiet is stubborn. He is outraged by treatment he perceives as unfair (he stood up for much older ds2 for example when he was being bullied - the bully was so shocked by this tiny kid asking why he'd just said whatever he'd said he backed down at that moment. I hope he continues to stand up for the underdog (it's definitely his natural position) & doesn't let his shyness get in the way of that.

Interesting and reflective article. In my (endless) ponderings over why my son's friend became his bully and why the observers became participants, I keep having to write it off as 'pack behaviour' due to their immaturity (yr 7). Within the physical and theoretical constraints of school they knew how far they could push it (as per the article) but outside school, on school bus, at bus stops etc, it just kept escalating, from taunting to physical, because no one could/would/knew how to step in and say it wasn't ok. Schools these days do try their best to have zero tolerance on bullying and ingrain in pupils that it isn't acceptable, that they must speak up if they suffer or witness it, but I don't think this is enough. There is also the 'self preservation' which makes children of that age ignore bullying or the animalistic instinct of finding it fun to join in and see the victim suffer.

i.e. Not enough to eradicate it. It sounds defeatist but I feel, in the light of my son's experiences, that we can never change some aspects of human nature. Some people will always behave that way, others know that it is not ok.

And don't get me started on the influence of the violence in computer games...

It's interesting, my ds is a total jump in there and defend the innocent type of kid and always has been. He also took a long time to get the concepts of consequences and other rules about social behaviour. He is very definitely a 'march to his own drum' person. He is also the sort of child who might be quite prone to being bullied, as he is very slight, was really quite socially awkward, very geeky, and until fairly recently dressed fairly oddly (he still is very idiosyncratic, but apparently is now cool too).

dd on the other hand was always very good, kind and nice to people, but much less likely to push herself forward as she worries about the consequences. Friendships are very important to her and she has also been bullied.

It was always interesting being a fly on the wall when ds was counseling dd on how to respond (back when they were 11 and 13 I think). He'd learned that pushing back physically got bad marks (especially when it was a girl, which he found very annoying) so does it entirely with wit, cutting the other person right down and making them not want to engage with him at all. Of course the really tricky thing with bullying is that it is often people in your close friendship circle that turn on you, and what you want is not for them to go away but for them to like you again.

And yes it would only have taken another girl in the friendship circle to say 'hang on a moment this isn't actually much fun' for the bullying to stop. I despise the girls who called themselves dd's friends but couldn't stand up for her, even for a few seconds in some ways rather more than I despise the bully herself. She is just a nasty piece of work, the others think of themselves as generally nice.

Sometimes it works, but not others. My DD stood up to the bully who was verbally bullying her friends and ended up being physically bullied herself - leaving large bruises. This was another 6 year old girl. The school implied it was DD's fault if she hadn't got involved she wouldn't have got hurt.

I think we should teach our children about all aspects of bullying. It is important that they learn to stick for the person who's being bullied, and pull away friends if they are doing it.
And I suggested to my son that they should deal as a group with the boys that behaved badly towards them.

The don't get involved and tell a teacher thing is really ingrained in some teachers though, and whilst in some ways I agree with it (and there is of course always some risk for your poor dd lonecat) an immediate response is much better than a delayed one by someone who wasn't there and doesn't know what has actually happened.

I was surprised that the same 'tell the teacher' message was being given at my son's martial arts class, ds and I agreed that given that we'd been shown a variety of ways to defend ourselves we really should feel brave enough to intervene, at least verbally to say 'that's not on'.

I see on here parents saying they encourage their children not to stand out. Discouraging children from doing things that might make them stand out and make them a target.

I'm an introvert and am aware that I'll never "fit in" socially. My dd is the same. I have tried to teach her that everyone will stand out in some way, intentionally or not. The short kid, the kid with big ears, the one who doesn't have the right labels, the one who doesn't like football or fairies. It's the differences that make people interesting. I have also made sure she knows it's ok to be on her own, and walk away from behaviour she doesn't want to be part of.

This has meant that dd often challenges bullies. She will either put herself physically between the bully and bullied, and say nothing. Or she'll pull them up on it, and ask why it matters so much x has big ears, or y is small.

There was a bully in her class, who got nowhere. Dd refusing to get involved with the "you're in my gang" crap meant others would also walk away, and the bully lost all her power to manipulate.

I'm actually finding it harder with dd2, who's an extrovert and very social. She hates to be left out so does bend more to peer pressure.

Lonecat, I think that your daughter did the right thing, maybe a chocolate medal for bravery is in order?

I think that rascism is often bullying someone of a different race and that rascists and bullies should be regarded in the same light

HotWok sadly the particular teacher ( who was head of infants) insisted she back off and not intervene. I even told the teacher that DD had suggested that the bully was trying to make friends, but going about it incorrectly the teacher dismissed this as wrong. Now going into year 7 the bully is still a problem to other children, they have virtually no friends ( so it is not always about being popular) and their parents still view it all as a bit of silliness.
Incorrectly handled every step from nursery onwards.

It is badly managed, kids are told off for telling tales, even when they have been told to tell a teacher. I would want all kids to practice standing up for their friends. As they wouldnt want to be left alone ... DD stands up to bullies, she knows what to say, rather than be mean, something like .. your being horried etc ... bullies do end up lonely, kids vote with their feet eventually. And yes to high school, a bigger pool, more friendship choice.