Day 7 Severe pain and bleeding please help

(35 Posts)
SilverSixpence Wed 30-Jan-13 10:59:13

I have been really struggling with pain and bleeding for the past 3-4 days. I had similar with DS as a newborn but it seemed to resolve more quickly, this time there is no sign of improvement and I am finding it quite upsetting sad

I have read other threads on similar problems, mw checked latch and says its ok but that she creeps off during the feed and needs repositioning which I have been doing. I am using Lansinoh and gelonet. The last 24 hours were so unbearable that I have started using nipple shields which help but I'm still bleeding at the beginning of each feed.

I will be seeing the breastfeeding counsellor tomorrow but what should I be doing until then? How long is it likely to hurt this much? Any positive stories? I bf DS for 11 months and want to do the same again.

amazingmumof6 Wed 30-Jan-13 20:18:34

are you taking painkillers?

definitely check for tongue-tie! alarm bells ringing, if DD can't latch or loosing the latch and you have all the boob trouble, she could have a simple op to release the tongue -tie, they can bf straightaway!

3 of mine had it and we paid for ops to get it done quickly (wasn't willing to wait for 3 weeks NHS), here it's £50 for the consultation and $35 for the op, best money I ever spent!

congrats on DD!

crikeybadger Wed 30-Jan-13 20:26:33

Sorry I can't add much except to echo amazing's thoughts on tongue tie.
If you are experiencing this much pain and bleeding then your midwife is not right that the latch is fine.

Have a look at biological nurturing positions for now and fingers crossed you get some good help in the morning. Here's the link

amazingmumof6 Wed 30-Jan-13 20:42:52

and tongue-tie definitely runs in families, your DS probably had it too by the sound of it.

Notquiteinsane Wed 30-Jan-13 20:45:55

I absolutely agree with the tongue tie possibility! My DD was a horrible feeder and I had pain/bleeding with her, but it seemed to resolve quicker than the pain and bleeding I had with my DS recently. My DD had tongue tie, so alarm bells were ringing straight away this time around. Not sure where you live, but def search for private consultations as most GP's don't even know what it is!! If you happen to be around Oxfordshire, Children Breastfeeding has a good website with links to privately practicing bf specialists.
I totally feel your pain - I dreaded every single feed. Expressing for me was just as painful as the damage done was so bad, but is it something you've tried? Just to give yourself a break?
I also got some steriod cream from GP as at one stage a midwife suggested chronically painful nipples could be thrush. Turned out to be just the tongue-tie, but the cream helped with quick healing!
Hang in there!!
Ooh, also, a good tip I was given for surviving in the meantime was to lay back and let DS 'find' it himself. To be fair, as toe curling as the anticipation of the pain was, he managed to latch on better like that before the tongue tie snip.
Sorry this has been an essay smile I feel your pain!

SilverSixpence Wed 30-Jan-13 20:57:42

Thank you for the advice! I did read about biological nurturing but must admit I find the thought of letting her latch on herself a bit too scary at the moment. I have been feeding with shields today which has helped a bit but want to get back to feeding without as soon as possible. I will definitely be exploring the possibility of tongue tie, will be the breastfeeding counsellor be able to check it? Otherwise will see midwife again on Saturday. She does seem to open her mouth quite wide and gets a mouthful of breast so im not sure if her latch is ok or not.

amazingmumof6 Wed 30-Jan-13 23:32:58

yes bf expert can tell you. it's not how wide open the mouth is, it's the action of the tongue that matters.

they can all yawn!

the movement of the tongue pushes the breast to the roof oh the mouth thus squashing out the milk. if the tongue is tied down the baby can't stick her tongue or so can't scoop the breast so to speak.

the tip of the tongue is a clue as well, think of a heart shape, but not the pointy end but the 2 "bumps" - the tongue will be the same, as the pointy bit is sort of pulled under, tied down.
you can possibly see a thin membrane/skin like a sail under the tongue connecting it to the base, that's very typical and my DS5 had that.

but my DD had an atypical tongue-tie which was a thick chunky piece of skin at the base of the tongue literally shortening the tongue.
both midwife and health visitor were unsure, but I just knew something wasn't right.
she actually also had a problem with her soft palate too, so latching on was a nightmare! I was bf her, but tried a bottle in desperation to make it easier for her, but she struggled even more and just kept on releasing the latch, it was just too much hard work.

the roof of her mouth was too domed/arched, so no matter how much she was trying she could just never press the boob (or teat) enough.
think of a pair of pliers when no matter how hard you squeeze the handles the tips just won't grip.

My osteopath, who realized this problem, manipulated the cranial plates, which in turn effected the soft palate and flattened it out, so the latch improved massively.
we had 2 sessions 3 weeks apart, sorted.

you might want to get a cranial osteopathy session to check for this or any other problems that could prevent a proper latch.

let us know how you are progressing, I hope you get the help you need asap!

ilovecolinfirth Thu 31-Jan-13 09:22:03

My ds2 had tongue tie and had it snipped at 1 week old. Feeding became a little easier after that.

I assumed feeding him would be easy as I'd bf ds1 for 9 months, but really I found it so painful. DS2 would latch on for a few seconds and come off again...each time he latched on I was in agony. In the first 6 weeks I got mastitis 3 times.

I used lansinoh, but even that was painful to apply, gelonet helped, as did hugging a hot water bottle between feeds. I also introduced a dummy to help him get back to sleep during night feeds as he was comfort feeding. I only needed to use the dummy for a week before he learnt to settle himself.
I also expressed every morning as it was less painful and for one feed a day I could have a break. Week 6 all pain disappeared over-night.

Good luck. X

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 11:29:52

Thanks, I have spoken to the midwife this morning and have arranged to go to the clinic in the afternoon. Having read more about it last night and had a good look at her tongue I do think she has a posterior tongue tie. DH is horrified at the idea of them snipping the tongue tie but if that's the cause of the problem I will be so relieved!

amazingmumof6 Thu 31-Jan-13 11:42:43

ok, she seems like she needs it, so about the op.

they put a little tampon like wad sprayed with anesthetic under tongue to numb the area. might make her sleepy during or just after op, but it won't last long, few mins.

I tell you that she will probably scream and there will be some blood, so whoever is the strongest mentally should hold her.

some babies actually sleep through it so it is suggested that they feel no pain under 6 months of ages, it's the fussing in their mouth that makes them cry.
true or not it has to be done, no point feeling sorry for her, it's much worse for you to watch!!!!

with DS5 they snipped the skin 2 drops of blood, done and dusted.

with DD it was really awful, I almost told the surgeon to be careful not to cut her tongue off (!!!) as he was really going at it, blood everywhere, baby wailing, just horrible to watch!
bf starightaway, blood on boob after feed - BUT done and dusted too! RELIEF!

would do it again in a heartbeat, so if she needs it take a deep breath and get on with it. no regrets. you both need it. good luck!

ilovecolinfirth Thu 31-Jan-13 13:44:08

Yes, really quick procedure. It took seconds and my son cried for less than 5 seconds and fell fast asleep straight away! Not only does it help with breastfeeding, but every child has a right to lick ice cream and stick his/her tongue out at their parents smile

Notquiteinsane Thu 31-Jan-13 14:13:22

My DS needed it done twice as the 1st time it grew back (this is really rare, so don't worry) and although it wasn't fun, it was so worth a few seconds of tears! And as others have said, it is the fussing and fiddling not the snipping that causes the grumps. The skin they cut is similar your earlobe in the sense that it has little to no nerves.
Interested to read about the numbing wad...poor DS didn't have any of that, he just needed to be really hungry, to make sure he wanted to feed enthusiastically afterwards as this is what stops the bleeding. And it was done in a church hall...eek it sounds so awful writing that, but the lady that did it runs her whole clinic like that. The point I'm trying to make is that it is a minor enough thing that it can be done just like that! Was totally legit, please don't get the wrong idea!! smile
And my DH was not particularly helpful about it all either, I just went by myself to avoid having 2 people to look after. No comment!

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 15:09:39

I've been to the clinic and she has got tongue tie. Thank you all for suggesting it as I wouldn't have even considered it otherwise. I am really upset that they are making me go back in a week before they will refer (those are guidelines from king's). After that it's another six days. I really feel its too long to wait in this much pain sad i haven't expressed and cup fed yet which is what they also suggested but it just seems an unnecessary delay.

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 15:43:43

just had a look at DS's tongue, he also looks like he has tongue tie as does DH! but I managed to persevere through the pain. DD's is much worse though.

I'm trying to find a private clinic as I don't think i can wait 2 weeks.

crikeybadger Thu 31-Jan-13 17:01:47

Good that you've got a definite diagnosis silver but that's appalling you have to wait so long.

You could look for a private lactation consultant as some of them are qualified to snip tongue ties.

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 17:07:16

I've called around and found one (Ann Dobson) who can do it tomorrow! It's expensive but will be worth it if it sorts it all out.

Privately in hospital clinic it's now around £450! Nhs clinic said it could be done as soon as a week from now but could be up to 12 days so think I will just get it done.

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 17:11:10

I've called around and found one (Ann Dobson) who can do it tomorrow! It's expensive but will be worth it if it sorts it all out.

Privately in hospital clinic it's now around £450! Nhs clinic said it could be done as soon as a week from now but could be up to 12 days so think I will just get it done.

amazingmumof6 Thu 31-Jan-13 17:34:24

can you call your hospital where your baby was born?

we had it done there, it's the same guy doing the private and NHS appointments, BUT NHS waiting list is up top 3 weeks!!!!!

and what crikey said

crikeybadger Thu 31-Jan-13 17:43:52

Ann Dobson has been mentioned positively on here before and it's good that she can do it tomorrow.

Hope it goes well.

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 18:26:29

Dont think the local hospital offers it our nearest is kings and wouldn't get it done sooner. We're fortunate to be able to afford to do it privately but find it frustrating esp as I work for the NHS!

amazingmumof6 Thu 31-Jan-13 19:14:52

are you very tempted to do it with a pair of scissors? I was.....

I had a moment with DS5 when I thought, for crying out loud, it's just a piece of skin, midwives used to just rip the skin with their little finger nail, why do I have to pay for this?????
I should just do it, sod it, it will be fine! and if I screw it up it's an emergency and will be free anyway.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I resisted the urge. proud to be a responsible parent.

just pay for it, but keep the receipt, she can pay you back from her first paycheck!grin grin

SilverSixpence Thu 31-Jan-13 21:18:37

Well I probably could do it as I'm a doctor! But not a surgeon and couldn't do it to my own baby smile

We've had a difficult time this evening, constant feeding or crying
wanting feeding. The cup feeding was hopeless, she couldn't lap/sip from the cup as advised and got very upset. Ive also got some kind of a throat/chest infection, and Ann hasn't contacted me back with an appointment!

Hopefully things will be different in 24 hours...

amazingmumof6 Thu 31-Jan-13 21:24:38

sweetie, big hugs, not sure what to suggest!

I know she's very little, but maybe you could try it from a syringe (like the one comes from nurofen or drip it from a spoon?

I do wish I could be there and do something, even if it's just taking her for a walk so you can have a nap.

I really think some co-codamol would do you good temporarily (as you are a doc, you know all about it)

big big hugs thanks at least you know it's not you and that it will be sorted, hope fully very soon! xx

amazingmumof6 Thu 31-Jan-13 21:27:03

ooh, get some earplugs to "numb" the crying! always helps me to not get too wound up.

SilverSixpence Fri 01-Feb-13 11:10:38

Thanks amazingmum we are doing better today as DH had bright idea of putting her in sling last night and she finally got to sleep and gave me a chance to sleep!

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