My box of formula says water should be 40-50C- that isn't right is it?

[raininginbaltimore]

I ordered my Hipp formula, as I am ff from start (medication reasons). I got their new one and looked at instructions and it says water must be at least 40-50 degrees C. I thought it was 70? Have guidelines changed?

I might ring them but thought I would check with you knowledgeable lot first!

[nickelbarapasaurus]

is it for over 6 months old?

that doesn't sound right - it has to be 70 to kill germs.

[nickelbarapasaurus]

it says at the top for formula containing probiotics, though so maybe it's a different rule?

[raininginbaltimore]

Yeah that is the one I have. Hmmm. I will ask them.

[tiktok]

Hipp has always said this, AFAIK. Call them and ask them why. Guidelines have not changed.

[nellypackedhertrunk]

It has to be boiled water that is cooled to no lower that 70 degrees.

[RuthlessBaggage]

The probiotics are supposedly damaged by the heat.

Personally I'd rather lose the probiotics and be confident of killing any bacteria, but I agree a call would be reassuring.

[raininginbaltimore]

I emailed them (easier with a toddler!)

This is the reply:

The Department of Health recommends that a temperature
of 70 degrees or above is used to make up powdered formula.  This is to
reduce the (very low) risk of illness caused by harmful bacteria, which can come
from the powder or from the home.
 
HiPP Organic Combiotic contains a probiotic culture
('friendly bacteria') called L.Fermentum hereditum, originally derived from
breastmilk.  Due to the friendly bacteria being "alive", the feeds need to
be made up using water that has been boiled and then cooled to 40-50
degrees.  Although this is new to the UK, this is common  practice in
Europe, where products containing probiotics have been used for over 20
years.
 
At the same time, there have been significant
improvements in the production processes used by HiPP to improve even further
the microbiological safety of our formulas, and our probiotic formulas are
subject to a much higher level of safety testing than is required by
law.  We do extensive microbiological testing of our products at each stage
of production and the risk of bacterial contamination of our formulas is
minimised through careful production measures.
 
At HiPP we believe that we have sufficient documentation
to support preparation of our formulas at the lower temperature of 40-50 degrees
C and that when prepared at this lower temperature according to our instructions
and fed to the baby immediately the milk is safe.
 
The most important thing to do is to follow the
instructions on the pack carefully;  sterilising all equipment and
surfaces, washing hands and preparing feeds as needed and using them
immediately.  If you are out and about, sterile ready to feed milk is
available.  The ready-to-feed formulations do not contain the "friendly
bacteria", but the composition is otherwise very similar.

[Finallygotaroundtoit]

< L.Fermentum hereditum, originally derived from
breastmilk.>

Never heard of it!
Sounds made up to me.

And they are trying to imply that their formula has bm in it - it does not

Also rather sneaky is the suggestion that they can flout national guidelines and throw in 'bacteria from the home' to be as significant as non sterile formula contaminated before it's even opened.

Naughty and misleading

[RuthlessBaggage]

Spontaneous reply there...

Do you have a supportive midwife available to discuss it with?

[raininginbaltimore]

Yes, my midwife is great.

I realise it is a standard reply. Argh. I got Hipp for a few reasons- one because we can buy it online at no extra cost. And because I can't BF I thought I would try and do the best and get organic. I know some people will think that is daft, but it is hard enough knowing you can't BF.

I think I will just have to make it at 70, and kill the friendly bacteria. But presumably not kill the nutrients. I wish it wasn't this hard.

[nellypackedhertrunk]

What a rubbish response. Formaula has to made with boiled water cooled to no lower than 70 in order to kill the intrinsic pathogens within it. Perhaps HIPP should read the following document from the World Health Organisation:

www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/pif_guidelines.pdf

[raininginbaltimore]

I feel a bit stupid now. I thought I was doing the best thing for the baby, without breast milk. Bet loads of people think I am stupid.

[Babylon1]

You're not stupid at all, don't think that

It's better to ask and be certain than to just wing it and get it wrong.

You'll get loads of great support here, so don't ever feel daft for asking anything and never ever advance search me to find some of the ridiculous questions I have asked

[midori1999]

Don't feel stupid. You are doing the best for your baby, you are doing the best you can and you can't do any more than that.

[AuntPepita]

I bet no-one thinks you are stupid! You are following the manufacturers guidelines - it is NOT YOU that is stupid.

[raininginbaltimore]

I am wondering if there is a way of querying it with, I dunno department of health. I am thinking that it isn't right that the instructions are against guidelines.

[YoulllaughAboutItOneDay]

No one thinks you are stupid.

What a stupid way to develop a product more like. Oh, we know that it needs to be prepared at 70 degrees to kill potentially harmful bacteria, but we want prebiotics in. Ah, sod it, we'll tell people to use 50 degree water.

Also interesting that they say they believe that temperature is ok if the milk is used immediately. What about the situations where you need to pre-prepare a bottle. As I think I've seen you discussing on threads (don't want to search past threads. Feels a bit stalkerish!) there are safe ways of doing that with 70 degree water.

Bloody formula companies making things so hard .

[raininginbaltimore]

Thanks. Yes I was discussing that. I do want to be able to prepare a feed in advance and take out in cold bag.

It is annoying that they have marketed this in a way that means it can't be made safe.

[5madthings]

raining i use the hipp formula, like you i figure its 'organic' so better and i ignore their instructions and make it with 70 degree water, my 2 seem fine on it like that, if i have killed the prebiotics then it doesnt make that much difference, not all formulas have the prebiotic anyway! and i would rather do that than risk them getting poorly.

[SchrodingersMew]

I use the HIPP baby milk in bottles, will this have been made up the same way?

[TinyDiamond]

OP, I'm sure someone may have directed you here if you've had other threads about it before. But have you definitely checked that your meds cannot be combined
With bf? Doctors will tell you no for anything stronger than paracetamol but there are experts that can talk you through it properly.

There is the drugs in breastmilk helpline run by the breastfeeding network (just search for the number) I think
It is staffed Monday to fri.

If you have an iPhone there is a free app called lactmed which is really helpful for doing your own research too

[raininginbaltimore]

Thanks. Yes I have checked. I will be restarting lithium for my bipolar disorder almost immediately (going to feed for at least a day).

Lithium is a pretty nasty drug, and I have done lots of reading. There is not enough evidence to make me feel safe using it. I have to have regular blood tests to check kidney and liver function as it can destroy them.

It had been a long, hard decision.

[showtunesgirl]

Why do Hipp believe they are above the Official DOH guidelines?

[showtunesgirl]

Why do Hipp believe they are above the Official DOH guidelines?

[nellypackedhertrunk]

Please don't feel stupid. No one thinks that. The emotion I feel is being cheesed off (that's me being polite) with the formula companies for advising parents to do something unhealthy. If I was in your position I would have assumed that the manufacturers instructions were correct so actually you've showed far more intelligence than most people, including myself.

I don't know your personal story other than what you have said here. I'm sorry that you have to cope with your condition together with working out what is best for your baby. However, it is really important that you do what is best for you regarding the Bipolar Disorder - and that in itself will turn out to be the best for your baby because you can be there for him/her. You've already shown yourself to be a great mum by querying the information you had. You're doing a great job and don't tell yourself anything else.