Stil have problems with DS, he's dropped below his centile now

[FingonTheValiant]

Me again.

DS is now 13 weeks. I took him to be weighed today and he is 5.38kg. He's gone from slightly above the 9th to slightly below it. That's with a formula top up every now and then.

I've yet again described the problems I have feeding him and they finally agreed that it doesn't sound normal and that there's a problem, but they're not sure what it is.

I have to see the GP, but I don't hold out much hope that he'll know better than them.

Does anyone have any advice about how to deal with the GP to make sure we're taken seriously? The last time I spoke to a GP about it (5 weeks ago) he referred me to the HVs and said he was sure it would work itself out :(

I just don't understand why DS hates feeding so much :(
I thought we had it sorted, but it lasted all of 2 days.

[marzipananimal]

Hi Fingon, I can't remember exactly the problems you were having before. could you perhaps link to the thread or outline it briefly? A small slip below a line doesn't sound worrying in itself. Are there any GPs at your surgery who have breastfed? They might be more help

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Fingon, I can't remember you problems either unfortunately so a link might be helpful.

Do you think that talking to a Bfing Counsellor before the GP appointment might help?

[FingonTheValiant]

The only two female GPs don't have children sadly.

In a nutshell, DS latches on fine, feeds fine for a couple of minutes and then starts screaming and pulling off and arching and pushing himself away. He wont go back on until he's finished screaming and I've calmed him down, and then the same thing happens.

By screaming I mean full-on, "I'm in pain" screaming.

In total I can maybe get him to feed for 10 mins before he gets too wound up to feed anymore. That's the point at which he's had enough to stop rooting for more etc.

I dont think he's getting enough though, the time between feeds is getting shorter and shorter. Even at night he only goes 2.5-3hrs, whereas before he was doing 4-5hrs.

Also, he'd already dropped from 50th to 9th, and they said as long as he stuck to the 9th it wouldn't be a problem, so now he's slipping from that...

[FingonTheValiant]

He does exactly the same with a bottle.

[FingonTheValiant]

We've had lots of problems which we've worked through (mainly thanks to mumsnet), but this one seems to be sticking.

BF counsellors keep giving me the same advice, but it's not working :(

[thisisyesterday]

sounds like reflux to me

i would see the GP and insist on a referral to a paediatrician

in the meantime get yourself to a qualified breastfeeding counsellor who may be able to give you some other advice and tips on feeding a potentially reflux-y baby

[marzipananimal]

:( that sounds really hard. Have you spoken to a bf counsellor? I'm afraid I don't really have any advice - I've had plenty of bf problems but they've all been on my side not his.
Is he generally happy, healthy and alert? Feeding 2.5-3 hours even at night isn't unusual but obviously the screaming isn't right.

[PrivetDancer]

Thrush? He might have a sore mouth?

[marzipananimal]

sorry, x-posts. Yes reflux is what springs to mind. Has that been explored as a possibility?

[thisisyesterday]

sorry just seen that you've seen counsellors.

omg! i just looked at your profile and pics and he is GORGEOUS! had a total "i need a small squishy baby right now" moment there! lol

can I ask which breastfeeding counsellors you've seen? I have noticed (sadly from experience) that they are not all equal.. .perhaps some other mnetters in your area can suggest others you could rty?

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Fingon it does sound really, really hard for you all.

Have you seen any of the Bfing Counsellors face-to-face, have any of them seen you feed?

[FingonTheValiant]

They've looked for thrush, he seems clear. They mentioned reflux today, but it's the first time someone mentioned it. Maybe the GP can look into that.

He is otherwise happy and alert.

The 2.5-3 hours wouldn't bother me except that I think it's part of his feeding problems.

Can I just ask to see a paed? I thought that was only for really serious things.

[FingonTheValiant]

Thanks TIY :) He's obviously a lot bigger now, but still gorgeous I think :o

I've seen one that the midwives sent, one at hospital, the one at the baby clinic and the ones at my local baby cafe. All of them watched, and all recommended more skin-to-skin and trying different positions.

The most useful was a LLL counsellor over the phone (WoTMania it turned out), but that was a while ago. I think I need to see a LLL person face-to-face but I've never been free to get to one of their meetings.

[thisisyesterday]

was going to recommend LLL actually! lol

def worth seeing someone face to face... also, if you start a thread about reflux you may get some helpful tips on here about it

i realise it may not be that, but it does sound a lot like the symptoms and it would give you something to try while you wait for GP etc
only thing i know off the top of my head is trying to feed in a very upright position, if you can, and if he comes off keeping him upright
oh oh, should add... normally reflux means the baby is sick a lot, but you can get what is referred to as "silent" reflux where they don't actually sick anything up, but it's coming up into their throat and hurting them

you can and I think should just ask for a paed referral. I would just go in and say that it has been going on for X weeks (since he was born?), he is not gaining weight, the HV have advised further investigation, you're very very worried and that you would like to see a paediatrician

If you have a choice of GP's to see then maybe try and get an appt with the one you feel will be most sympathetic. I find it helps to get a little bit tearful and desperate looking (sadly i never find that bit too hard)

[pushmepullyou]

Reflux? If he is in pain during feeding when lying down then it could well be that he's feeling a bit acidy. My DD did this too and settled down a bit with reflux meds. She dropped from the 25th centile to below the 2nd. I found that feeding her a bit more upright helped as well

[Notacluetoo]

Hello I've not posted on MN before but saw your post and it sort of rang a bell with me... My DD1 had similar feeding problems (would scream as soon as she went to feed, whether bottle or breast) She was on the 5th centile at birth and it was only because of formula top ups that she kept and gained weight... We eventually took her to a cranial Osteopath - the difference was miraculous. The Osteopath said that sometimes when they've had a difficult birth they can get sort of pressure points In their head / neck which cause them pain when they're reclined for a feed? I don't know whether this may seem relevant in your case but if traditional avenues are failing you, it might be worth considering? It is a bit pricy but then my DD only needed 2 sessions and I'd have happily paid for 20! Certainly the possibility of reflux needs to be investigated as the other posters have said but if you're still having no joy, then maybe see if there's a cranial Osteopath near you? I really hope you get the help and support you need xx

[FingonTheValiant]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try keeping him up a bit. And I'll start a thread to see what people suggest.

Thanks TIY, I'll see if I can get the GP to do the referral.

[organiccarrotcake]

I was also going to recommend trying a cranial osteopath. They can really help - but you need to get there asap as the older they get, week by week, it gets harder to help.

Reflux doesn't need a paed referral. Your GP will be able to prescribe Infant Gaviscon, if they think it's reflux, which is a powder that you need to make up with a little sterile (boiled) water. You can use a small syringe to gently put it into his mouth rather than a bottle.

If it's reflux you can try to get to the bottom of it. It can be caused by an immature top stomach valve (which will resolve itself, it's quite normal) and sometimes other things can cause it - for us it's dairy. I've had to drop all dairy (including chocolate, worse luck). If it's the valve, keeping him more upright during and after feeding can help, lifting the head end of his cot or moses basket (NOT the mattress, but the whole bed) by about 3" can also help.

[FingonTheValiant]

Thanks organic and Nota, I'll look into finding a cranial osteopath.

I've tried cutting dairy before, as he was a bit colicky. It didn't change anything, so I don't think it's due to that.

[cashewsmummy]

have you tried colif for colic? avail over counter but i get it on prescrption with HV's help! have you checked he's not teething? my 11 wk DD is already and is fussy with feed at times. Worth ruling out .good luck.

[witchwithallthetrimmings]

does sounds like reflux but feeding every 2.5/3 hours is perfectly normal. Lots of bf babies feed this way. If he does have reflux then the best thing is to feed him little and often anyway.

i had to feed ds every 1.5/2 hours at this age and dd every hour.

[FingonTheValiant]

cashews, I've tried infacol and gripe water, neither helped. I'll have a look aout for colif. Actually I was wondering if he's teething, he knaws on everything and is really dribbly. I'll have to look what I can do about that.

witchwithall, I'll go with little and often then, thanks :)

[MigGril]

It could be somthing other then reflux have a look hear.
www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

I would advices seeing a BF counciler if you haven't already they are much more lickly to be able to help you with this then any GP. Plus if you get to the bottom of it with them you then have more info to go back to the doctors with if he need's medication like Gaviscon.

Try one of these helplines
National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212

NCT Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 330 0771

La Leche League Helpline
0845 120 2918

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
08444 122 949