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Guest Blog: we can't end violence against women by kicking men out of feminism

(95 Posts)
KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:37

This week's guest blog is from Holly Baxter, who is co-editor of The Vagenda. Initially set up to call out women's magazines for limiting women's horizons, The Vagenda has helped to popularise feminism for a new generation of young women, and this week the team signed a book-deal.

In this guest blog, which is part of the #16days of activism to eliminate violence against women, Holly argues that the battle can't be won if we won't allow men to fight beside us. Her post is partly in response to recent events at the London Feminist Film Festival, where activist and panellist Julia Long asked all the men to leave a post-screening talk.

Read the blog, and do tell us what you think.

FYI, StewieGriffinsMom has set up a bloghop for #16days posts, so if you post about the 16 days of activism to eliminate violence against women, do add your URL on her blog, and tweet us @mumsnetbloggers too - we'll RT you if you do.

LittleTownofBethleHelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 14-Dec-12 15:12:08

Hello. Just posting to say a mahoosive apology for not having re-opened this thread.

Massive cock-up at MNHQ blush

Please be assured that our policy about suspending threads is only to do so temporarily - and then to re-open with an explanation as soon as possible.

That didn't happen in this case, and it should have. Very sorry.

OliviaPeaceOnMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 05-Dec-12 22:39:52

Hello there
Thanks for the reports regarding this thread. We're just going to take a pause until the morning when we can chat with the blogging team.
Night all
Thanks
MNHQ

WidowWadman Wed 05-Dec-12 22:39:09

I haven't said that women aren't oppressed on the basis of their gender. They're oppressed by both men and women because of their gender.

The answer - in my opinion - is to break down the barriers of sexism, to stop judging people by their sex, but instead focus on their opinions, what they say, and what they do.

You can't combat sexism by exercising it yourself.

chibi Wed 05-Dec-12 22:38:59

i disagree. naming the women is not emoting when they have been used to score cheap points in a blog. i named them because they were real, they were here, and they weren't abstractions for people to theorise over.

there is a discussion to be had about the role men might have as allies in feminism, but the crass way in which murdered women have been used here makes me not want to have that discussion with anyone who thinks that it is ok to do that.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:35:34

Or, do we want to deal with the fact that some figures in our activist world are keener to create a self-publicising moment than use their currency to draw attention to (for eg) FGM.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:32:29

Oh for fucks sake.
This naming of the dead could be applied to any political argument. Cf syria, cf FGM in Africa. Do we want to change things, or do we want to emote?

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 22:31:07

'Are all men one homogenous group of oppressors? I find it pretty sexist to judge men by their sex instead of what they do/say.'

Yeah, cos it'd be much better to go back to not realizing women are oppressing on the basis of gender. If only we pesky feminists would do that, why, I bet we'd have no more of this 'sexism' malarky, right? hmm

Honestly.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 22:30:25

Geneviève Bergeron, aged 21; Hélène Colgan, 23; Nathalie Croteau, 23; Barbara Daigneault, 22; Anne-Marie Edward, 21; Maud Haviernick, 29; Barbara Maria Klucznik, 31; Maryse Leclair, 23; Annie St.-Arneault, 23; Michèle Richard, 21; Maryse Laganière, 25; Anne-Marie Lemay, 22; Sonia Pelletier, 28; and Annie Turcotte, aged 21.

Je me souviens.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:28:10

Argh massive edit fail. Please lose "There are NO FUCKING FEMALES IN YOUR SPACE. " with my apols.
But srsly, goodnight.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:26:36

Off to bed, but a clarion call from the colonies [those who identify as feminists, but don't agree with you]

Politics is about people - that's all. Feminism only exists to make a difference, not to make careers. Stop shutting people out.

My mother, who did all that Seventies stuff, would turn in her grave at how you define 'a good feminist'.

Crucially: a 'female space' is best defined by the number of females that are in the space. There are NO FUCKING FEMALES IN YOUR SPACE. Why don't you aim to bring the thousands of women who are angry, into your space, before you claim it?

NIght all. Lalala I can't hear you.

WidowWadman Wed 05-Dec-12 22:22:42

"I don't see how women can "own" feminism whilst having to include men (our oppressors) in every discussion."

Are all men one homogenous group of oppressors? I find it pretty sexist to judge men by their sex instead of what they do/say.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 22:21:20

I don't see how women can "own" feminism whilst having to include men (our oppressors) in every discussion.

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 22:20:56

I'm off to bed. Thanks SGM and Chibi for your posts about these women and their memory.

It would be nice to keep that part of the thread going, instead of letting these women's names get sidelined yet again.

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 22:19:33

Oh, I see, you mean you exclude us. Thanks for that.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 22:19:14

hmm Are you being deliberately offensive?

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:13:46

"So if you want feminism to be owned by women what is the problem with excluding men from certain discussions?"
When I say women, I don't mean 'you', I mean 'women'.

TunipTheVegedude Wed 05-Dec-12 22:08:07

Women who agree with PlainBellySneetch get defined as 'women generally' and women who disagree with her get defined as a narrow interest group and accused of cock slamming. That seems to be how it works....

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 22:06:34

chibi sad

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 22:05:33

So if you want feminism to be owned by women what is the problem with excluding men from certain discussions?

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 05-Dec-12 22:04:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 22:00:12

"I'm guessing that there is another agenda going on here with PlainBellySneetch. "

Um, no. I am a person, on my own, unsupported, connected or funded by any other person or thing.

I'd just like feminism to be owned by women generally, rather than by groups of narrow interest. I think more good will be done that way.

chibi Wed 05-Dec-12 21:59:39

Geneviève Bergeron, aged 21; Hélène Colgan, 23; Nathalie Croteau, 23; Barbara Daigneault, 22; Anne-Marie Edward, 21; Maud Haviernick, 29; Barbara Maria Klucznik, 31; Maryse Leclair, 23; Annie St.-Arneault, 23; Michèle Richard, 21; Maryse Laganière, 25; Anne-Marie Lemay, 22; Sonia Pelletier, 28; and Annie Turcotte, aged 21.

i remember.

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 21:59:03

That's awful chibi. sad And I completely see your point. While wondering what the heck Baxter was thinking.

chibi Wed 05-Dec-12 21:57:59

i am pretty gobsmacked at the way in which this blogger has used the montreal massacre to make a point about men (maybe) being asked to leave a film or discussion or whatever.

i am canadian. i was a 14 year old girl on 6 december, 1989 and it was a huge fucking deal that young women not much older than myself were murdered because of misogyny.

i can't articulate how it was to be a young woman in canada on that day, and the days after.

it was shocking to realise that it didn't matter who they were, only that they were women, and in a place where someone felt they shouldn't be. the coupling of their tragedy to make some crummy point in some blog dehumanises them again - their stories don't matter, who they were doesn't matter, only that they are women, and there to be used to make some kind of point.

PlainBellySneetch Wed 05-Dec-12 21:57:24

That last was to Tunip. I have to duck out for a minute.

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