Mumsnet Talk

Long story short, elderly MIL lost her firstborn babies (twin boys), they were stillborn at term, this would have been in the 1950s though I'm unsure of the exact year. She was very ill (pre-eclampsia as far as I can work out) so FIL dealt with the funeral arrangements and she doesn't know what happened to their bodies (FIL now deceased so can't ask him).

So my questions are:
1. Could I find out what happened to them, and if so where would I start?

2. Should I even try to? I really don't want to cause her upset (she doesn't mention them often but I'm sure they're not forgotten). Then again she may be disappointed if I tried and failed to find out, so should I maybe make preliminary enquiries anyway, before approaching her?

It's not the kind of thing DH would think of finding out (not that he thinks it's a bad idea) - I know that if it were my children I would want to know where they were, even after 60 years.

It wouldn't occur to me to do that. Do you think it's something she would want? She'd have asked her husband wouldn't she?

If there was a funeral then I assume there would have to have been a birth/death certificate, maybe that would be a good place to start?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/DG_175628

That's not to say you're wrong to btw. Just be careful about your " I would want to know" feelings.
I know from losing my dad that I'm not bothered where he is now - a cemetery or crematorium is not somewhere I think of him anyway.
But everyone's different.

I think the hospital might be a good place to start, they just might still have some sort of record of who they released them to.

About 10 years ago my mum wanted to find out what had happened to my grandfathers cousin as they had lost touch in the 1970s. Assuming she had passed on (would have been early 60's in age and had down syndrome) she contacted Somerset house I think.

A short time later she had a phone call from social services wanting to know who she was and why she wanted to know - turned out the cousin was still alive and had been taken into care and ss didn't realise the cousin had family. She was reunited with our family until her death a few years later.

Thank you all. She once said that FIL "wouldn't tell her" what happened to them (think he was quite controlling). But I really want to be sensitive to her feelings on it obviously. The hospital has since closed so it might be hard getting a lead anyway.

I don't think funerals for stillborn babies were common at that time. I was born in the 1950s and I remember my mother telling me that some babies were buried or cremated in a coffin with an adult so they wouldn't be alone

Hospitals will only keep records for twenty five years so it's unlikely you will get anything from the hospital. You may be able to get a birth and death certificate though.
The hospital's usually cremated the bodies or as retro says buried them with an adult (so there will be no record of the baby's burial).
We recently had a gentleman looking for his brother who had died in 1946, we were able to take him to where the hospital had been and to hold a memorial service in the hospital chapel. He said he found it very helpful.
(I work in the NHS)
If you know which hospital the babies were born in, I would recommend talking to the hospital chaplain.

I wouldn't mention it until you could DEFINITELY supply some info. If you could secretly find out what happened, then gently bring it into a conversation to find out if SHE really wants to know.....ifyswim. It would be horrible for her to want to know and then the outcome is something unpleasant or unfindable..

I only found out what happened to my mum.s ashes a couple of years ago - no one ever told me, and it seemed an impossible question to ask. She died in 1973. My aunt died and was cremated at the same place. My dsis went to ask in the office.

It's quite likely they would have been buried in a communal grave with other babies. I think it's hard to tell whether this would upset her or not, but if you did want to find out, the local parish would likely have a record, especially if they were at term.

I agree that I think you'll have trouble finding out. Stillbirths don't go on the general birth or death registers; there's a separate register which I don't think goes back that far. And I don't know if you can search that either. As odd as it may seem to us now, I think that they were just not counted

If the baby wasn't baptised then it probably wasn't buried in a churchyard and there may not have been a recorded grave anywhere or indeed there may not have been any record kept of the 'disposal' of the bodies.

It's awfully sad but the attitudes were different then.

My maternal grandmother had a stillbirth and all my mum knows is that he was buried in a local graveyard in with another person, pretty much as retro muffin said.

I would be inclined to leave well alone unless she explicitly asked me to do something. It is a different generation.

I don't think you should do this unless MIL would want it. The tragedy of the deaths touches her more than anyone else. And if you did find out, what would you then do with that knowledge?

And what does DP think? They are his brothers.

But if you decide to go ahead, I'd start witht he hospital. They might have kept records beyond the regulation period, but I do not know if they would release information to you (another reason to have MIL on side). If the babies were not given an individual fun real, the hospital will have arranged forthem to be placed in a (council, probably) communal grave. If they can tell you which burial ground, the authorities there should be able to tell you which plot. Otherwise, you could try funeral directors in the PILs then location, and if any SRE still in continuous business since that time they should have records.

I wish you well.

I agree with the others about treading carefully, but you could start at the local church, were your PIL church goers? You could check your DH's baptism cartificate for the church he was christened in. They may have records of funerals, or if there wasn't one then maybe they were remembered in the mass?

My mother was a church secretary many years ago and they have all kinds of things recorded, going back a very long way. You can find a lot out from them. (Also a good place to search for family history)

I think it's incredibly kind of you to want to do this for her. But I wouldn't mention it to her unless you can actually ensure you can find out definitively. Maybe find out and then try and have a conversation with her about them? I know everyone is different and often that generation has a stiff upper lip attitude, but I would think it would be a very thoughtful thing to do for her and though upsetting I think she would want to and has a right to know. But def sound it out first

Some records from a hospital will be passed to an archive eventually. Ask your Local Authority archive who holds them for that hospital (or Google).

However this type of information is usually not open to just anyone (Data Protection). And sadly this kind of information was also often either not recorded in official papers or not kept permanently. Your FIL was probably her best bet tbh.

If you feel she may like you to try, gently raise it with her while explaining it may come to nothing. It can be very hurtful for parents to find that the death of their children was "not important enough" for officialdom to keep proper records of what happened to them.

Depends on the hospital though as record keeping was not standardised.

You will need exact date as well.

Thank you all again for the info and advice, lots to think about here. I'll have a chat to DH and see what he thinks.

Just read this, and wondered if it would be worth asking at local undertakers. Depending on the sort of place they live, there may be only 1 or 2 and they may have records.

I find something infinitely touching in staff burying a baby with an adult, "so that it wouldn't be alone".

Times were different, and customs have rightly changed. But there was an underlying respect in the thoughts of those medical staff.

Hi my grandmothers first baby a boy was stillborn at term in 1943. She had a breakdown and was sectioned for a time so never knew what happened to him in secret I managed to find out-she had mentioned many times that it bothered her. I started with the local cemeteries going over the records for the year-I don't think you will have much luck without a specific year-it took a while but I found him. He was recorded under her name , ie so and so's son etc. she named him but as he was not technically born apparently that was what they used to do. He was buried in a communal grave but a lovely woman helped me pace out the slot in that area. I took my nan there and she was allowed to place a small wooden cross, she said it helped she just needed to know and the fact after 50 years she could place flowers gave her a lot of comfort. I would make sure however that she really wants or needs to know, my nan said my grandad wouldn't have ever gone with her the pain for him would be too great. Tread carefully. I came across quite a few resources do if she does want to find out I'd be happy to email some places I could start

Some places where u could start I meant