oh god i feel your pain, we had months of this.
my only useful tips are:
1. go to bed at 9pm as often as possible. dull, but preserves sanity
2. arrange some exhausting afternoon activity (swimming?) that tires them out
3. sounds weird, but try the more sleep thing - put to bed earlier, see if they're napping for long enough. it is utterly counter intuitive but we really did find sleep begets sleep
4. repeat to self: it's not forever. really its not. he is now 2 and sleeps in past 7.

Natlex - exactly same here - over 18 months now of this - we are on 4.30am now whatever we do in the day or whatever time he goes to bed - he is 21 months old now - and its getting worse - I can't believe I moaned about 5.30am! I am so sick of it I can't tell you. It is driving me totally insane - people are now telling me I need to just leave him to scream and maybe after 2 weeks he will get the message I am not coming in to get him. Don't think I honestly have the energy to do that - he is such a screamer! I spoke to the HV and she just said its perfectly normal - some toddlers are just like this and I have to accept it. That made me feel even worse than I already do.

So sorry long ramble and of no help to you whatsoever.

Hello

I have been battling with this problem for nearly 1.5 years now. My son is now 2 years 2 months. I think it is obvious that it is not a phase anymore, but there has got to be something to be done, surely? He's been doing 5.15am for a long time, winter, summer - doesn't matter. The last two nights, it's been 4.30am, which is a nightmare. The first night, he didn't even sleep with me when he woke up and went to play - rediculous and no idea how he lasts all morning. Today, he slept next to me until 6.00am. Not sure what to make of this. The first night he went to bed normal time at 7.00pm and yesterday I kept him up longer just to see, but no difference. All it seems to have done is wake him at the same time minus an hour of sleep, which he caught up on sleeping in my bed till 6.00am. Not sure what is worse, putting him to bed earlier and let him get up at 5.00am and not sleep anymore, or his waking up before 5.00am and sleeping with me for an hour.
I never ever sleep anymore once he is in my bed, as I can't even move, because it would wake him up again. Arguing with my husband moving in bed every morning when my son comes in. He wakes him up most of the time. It is a nightmare to have to deal with for over a year now.
HELP HELP HELP!!! I just want to know if it is just the way he is or ... but come on 4.30am has got to be a joke and can't possibly be normal time to wake up for anyone?
God bless!

The best advice i got was from someone on mumsnet. They basically said accept it, go to bed earlier, make coffee, cbeebies starts at 6am.

Last summer i was up everyday at 5am, this year its going the same way - but now there are two of them....

Mrs Bananas I do that!

Iam still BFing so whack a boob in his mouth.

Mine are up at 5.15too.

My son started doing this at 18 months and still doing it - he is nearly 2. Today was 4.50am. To start with it would happen once or twice, then it got more frequent. Well, we went through the whole winter of this and now looks like we are in for the whole summer with the same. Spring was better - about 6.00am. No idea what to do.
I am afraid it gets worse - not better - from 18 months onwards. Was a lot better when he was younger.
Putting him to bed later makes things worse, not better, so going back to putting him to bed his normal time - just before 7.00am, as it doesn't seem to make any difference, makes it a few minutes longer in the morning, if nothing else.
Also going to try and cut down his afternoon nap to 1 hour over the weekend and see what happens. Don't know what I can do, to be honest, as he is always happy to get up and start the day - well, at least, that's something and he is not tired.
Best of luck to all of you and keep posting things, which work. I will, if it happens.

my sympathies to the lot of you - we had months of this. the only thing i can suggest is (although it sounds utterly mad) try putting them to bed earlier. it's exactly the opposite of what you think would work but for some weird reason it worked for us. somehow the more overtired ds got (and he was knackered waking up at 5am just as i was) the less he was able to sleep well. putting him down an hour ealier somehow helped the clock reset itself, when he was reguarlly sleeping in to a more humane time (by which i only mean 6.30-7) we moved bedtime back again.
other than that second mrs mcluskey - get used to going to bed while it's still light...

My DD has been getting up at 5ish recently but slept til around 6.30 this morning. I don't think it was a coincidence that it was very dark and overcast and so her bedroom was much darker than normal.

I of course was awake at 5 anyway and couldn't get back to sleep!

Let us know how it goes, Libra!

Also (and I know this is annoying because this whole thread - in fact this whole subject - is all so contradictory) - but I used to be obsessed with black out blinds etc. until recently, when our DS started waking in the night again (which he had not done for AGES) and my mum told me that I had needed a nightlight when a little baby. So I started leaving his blind a little bit open and he seems happier with it - I think it means that in the morning, when he wakes up, he isn't in pitch blackness so can kind of chill out by himself for a bit without panicking, and crying for us, if you see what I mean.

Still had a 4:50am wakeup call this morning *sobs. However there is daylight coming in around the door edge so think I will try and do something about that tonight. By the time I finish not even air will be able to get in!!!
Put him to bed at 6:30pm last night which is earlier than usual, he is at nursery today so won't get back till 6pm but will try 5:30pm tomorrow.

LOL starkadder - my DD2 woke at 4.45am this morning <wishing I hadn't jinxed myself emoticon> However, will be putting em to bed at half 5 tonight and we shall see.....

Well despite the fact we had black out blinds light still got round the edges so tonight I have added masking tape!! There is NO light know coming from the window.

MY DD is 3 and has always been an early riser. Have tried everything but she wakes any time from 5am and I too think she is tuned into the seaons. Nature girl! It was 4.50 this morning.

Nothing works IMO - just go to bed early!

PS also, ours is 14 months now and usually wakes between 7 and 8, which is fine - goes to bed about 8.30 and has 2-3 hr nap in the day. Has been doing that for the last couple of months so there is hope! haha as I write this I know I am jinxing myself and he'll wake up at 5am tomorrow....

HI there - sorry, haven't read all thread, but wanted to say that our baby did this too at about the same age, and it was VERY tiring - and we didn't even have a toddler too - so my sympathies. I am another vote for the putting him to bed earlier thing. It worked for us - a few times.

I don't know why it worked but I think it might be something to do with the fact that between about 5am and 6am is a classic time for babies to wake up - maybe humans are kind of "wired" to wake up at dawn - so they are in really light sleep at that time - therefore, if they're overtired (from having gone to bed later than they'd like), they're more likely to be restless and wake up from their light sleep. This light sleep also means, of course, that sounds that wouldn't usually bother then WOULD wake them up (e.g. loo flushing, door opening, that kind of thing).

Not sure if that makes sense.

Yep agreed (sorry hadn't read all of the responses before). Last night DD was in bed by 6pm and slept until 6am (not great but would have been earlier if I had kept her up). Strange I know.

Am with Pamelat on this one, like I said before. Seriously, it really worked for us. In bed by 7pm at latest, usually 6-6.30pm, but if naps during day haven't been good and they are grizzly will put to bed as early as 5.30pm. This all gets them through until 7am most mornings

Only read OP but I would try putting to bed earlier. My DD has also slept better if asleep by 645pm, otherwise it was 530am waking.

Put him to bed later.

Am watching this thread with interest as I think my DS is heading the same way. He is 5 months.

I mustn't grumble too much as he has pretty much slept through since 5 weeks (8pm - 5.30am). But the killer for me is that he wakes up at 5.35 on the dot, and I give him a bottle but he won't go back to sleep in his cot. So, I bring him downstairs and an hour later, he'll fall asleep next to me on the sofa - by then I am too awake to sleep which is just as well as am also paranoid about him rolling off sofa/getting stuck in a corner aka: first time mum syndrome Just wish he would sleep in a bit longer in the mornings. I could go to bed at 9pm but then DH and I wouldn't get an evening together. My neice - same age - sleeps 7pm-7am. Arrrgh.

Well this morning I properly roused him at 4am (I even got a squark) but he only slept until 4:50am. I then spent an hour trying to get him back to sleep which involved turning him onto his back everytime he got onto his hands and knees (lots) and shusshing and rubbing tummy. After an hour I realised it wasn't going to happen so I left the room for 5 minutes and then went back in turning the light on and saying good morning etc in some vague hope that he might realise I am the one in charge.

All I want him to do is sleep until 6am. Tonight I am Sellotaping the blackout blinds to the window. Not ONE OUNCE of light is going to come in.

Harriet - hopefully you are not updating because you are tucked up in bed.

my DS 2,8 is a great sleeper in general but, hate to say, every summer wakes up early. As soon as the nights start drawing in and the mornings are darker, he wakes up later and later. I really think the seasons are responsible..

drjane - quite a bit older 2.2 I think was when we introduced it. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't work with younger kids - however their understanding may be more limited, and also their memory retention of the exciting reward they have promised (stickers!) not as clear perhaps?

What age did your DS start obeying the rabbit clock, notyummy?

We used one for our DS of 20 months for the first time last night because he's started waking early the last couple of weeks. I was woken by him shouting for me at 4.30am and when I came in he was pointing to the clock saying 'mama, whatsiss?'!

He didn't really go back to sleep either - he just shouted from his cot until I gave up and got him up at 6

Hopefully the clock will be less of a novelty by tonight!

We had the same (5am), and I think the dawn chorus is a factor - and a difficult one to control!

We used to take it in turns to go into her room and shush her to sleep (could take up to 45 minutes!!) - by which time we only had 30 minutes or so until we had to be up for work anyway!

DD did grow out of it - although she can still be an early riser now at 2.5. Now it is because she is dry at nights and her bladder wakes her. She takes herslef to the toilet and then goes back to bed. We have a rabbit alarm clock, and can't recommend it enough for older kids. She always obeys the rabbit (encouraged by a sticker every successful morning in the beginning) and goes back to bed until the rabbit wakes up. She doesn't always go back to sleep, but knows that she has to play quietly in her room (looks at books and plays with soft toys) until 6 45.

I am in the same boat and have just posted on the sleep section. My son wakes at 4.15. I think the dawn chorus idea is very interesting as he started off waking at 6, then it went to 5 and is now 4.15. This has all happened as the sun has started rising earlier (and therefore the birds singing earlier). It's not the light as he has blackout blinds. Perhaps i'll just have to saw down all local trees or get a cat with sharp teeth

Morning.

Yesterday I again lightly roused him at 4am (Still not sure I am doing it enough) and he woke at 4:40am!!!

This morning when I went in at 4am HE WAS ALREADY AWAKE. I put the dummy in (judge away I don't care, he's not dependent on it as he doesn't have it usually to sleep) and sushed him for a couple of minutes and he slept until 4:40am again. This time I went in, sushed him and stroked his tummy, turning him onto his back whenever he got onto his hands and knees and it took 30minutes but he went back to sleep at 5:10am and slept until 5:40am, at which point he definitely wanted to start the day.

I only have one DC and because he wakes so early he has a 2 hour nap at about 8:30amish at which point I can also go back to bed so it's painful but doable. The problem is I am going on holiday in 2 weeks and my DH is on sole childcare duty whilst also doing 10hour work days so I want to get DS sleeping until 6am if possible.

We have blackout blinds for his bedroom but bringing him in with us just makes him more excited and therefore won't sleep. We still give him a dream feed and have tried giving that later but it still does't make any difference. HE crawls round the house for about 30minutes after his supper but I am going to try and push that back to 6pm instead of 5pm to see if that helps.

Harriet what happened this morning? Hope you are still in bed

My LO did the same when he was 8/9 months, although it did coincide with me going back to work, so maybe not fair on him! He started between 5 and 5.30am and wanted to go downstairs and play; coming in to bed with us was a no-no, too much excitement and elbows and knees everywhere! He went on like this for about 2 months. I wish I'd known about WTS then, cos I would have tried it! He is now 21 months, and sleeps til 7 and beyond sometimes, so it did get better for us. I definitely agree with comments about sleep=more sleep; he always sleeps badly if he goes to bed overtired.

Silly question, but how near are trees outside his window? Could he be woken up by the dawn chorus? I'm only aware of it cos our dogs go bananas when the birds wake up and it's really loud in the trees in our garden. LO sometimes woken by dogs but persuadable to go back to sleep.

Also, loads of exercise and fresh air worked a treat for us - crawling around the garden after tea? Cazzzz suggested door bouncer - v good idea, I'd say.

Good luck!

God we're all in the same boat aren't we?

I gave him his tea at 5.30pm last night, and then a fruit pot with loads of extra baby rice in it at 6.00pm. I also put him to bed a bit later (8.00pm).

I tried WTS again but he woke up 5 min before i could 'rouse' him again. But you would think the end result would be the same if all you are trying to do is 'break the sleep cycle'. But no. What time did he wake up? 5.30am - AGAIN.

I gave him a bottle. I was determined to not get up with him so after 45 min of carrying on, he eventually dozed off. Then woke at 8.ooam!!! Horray!! But would rather not have to get up at 5.30 at all. Gonna stick with WTS, if he doesn't beat me to it again.

LibrasBiscuits - how has WTS gone for you?

Harriet

My dd was up at 5.30, most mornings its 6ish, she goes to be at 8 and just doesnt sleep in. On very very rare occasions she has made it to 7 - feels like heaven.

she still has a day time nap though, have tried cutting this back but it just makes her very irritable for the rest of the afternoon.

So reading the responses with interest.

Queenfee I know lots of parents who do this, so no need to whisper! Some children are larks some are owls!

I too am resigned to that fact that DD is a lark! So i go to bed early so I'm not all bleary eyed when she wants to be up and bouncing about the house! Means my social life is usually day time only unless I want to spend the evening apologizing to friends for yawning!!!!

oh and abid - nice thought that early risers are bright - there has to be a silver lining for every cloud!

Hi

My sympathies on this one. I am past this stage now, but my older son went through a 3 month phase when he woke up at 5.31 every day. Bone shatteringly knackering...

Interestingly "Toddler taming" doesn't have any solutions for this - so even the experts are foxed!

I would say - it's a phase (or was for us) - and think about doing extra things to tire him out (not easy when you're tired)

- door frame baby bouncer in the evenings?
- lots of crawling before bed?

Also, this was kind of against my principles at the time, but wouldn't be now, consider installing a TV with teletubbies video next to his cot, and passing him a bottle to feed himself. Don't feel you have to get up and do entertainment (like I did)!

My Ds is a naturally early waker. he is nearly 3 and goes to bed at 8 and wakes at 5 without fail. We have tried altering food times bedtimes naptimes and nothing works. He is perfectly happy with this much sleep (I however am not!) We have now just resigned ourselves to it. <whispers we have trained him to watch a video for an hour until the rest of us get up to maintain our sanity>
Sorry not to be of much hope. However my DS has never slept in so if your DC has it you are more likely to be successfull

Harriet, I have an early waker as well, he's now 17 months. I suggest that if wake to sleep doesn't work after a few days, give up and try again in a couple of months, if he's still doing it. At 10months I would be giving him the bottle at 5am - anything to prevent starting the day at that stupid time!

I'm afraid that DS is 6 and still wakes usually by 5.30am.

We have tried everything over the last three years including taking the lightbulb out of his room, tripping all the upstairs electrics but have had to accept that no matter what time he goes to bed, he is ready to go by 6.00am at the lastest!

Sorry, not what you want to hear i am sure

Am I the only person willing to admit that after an early wake up I bring DS into my bed and can normally pursuade him to dose off again if I breath heavily enough

Actually I should've said that he usually was good for another couple of hours.

My 18 month old has just started doing this- the past few mornings have been a 5.30 wake-up, wanting to get up. Usually he wakes at anything between four and five thirty, we run in, give him a bottle and some cardboard books and run back to bed. He would then be good for at least another hour or so.

Not any more! 5.30 seems to be a perfectly acceptable time to get up to him thankyouverymuch and he won't go back to sleep.

So fingers crossed that it is just a phase- although I might try putting him to bed earlier as twinmam suggested. He does seem to be needing the extra sleep.

Harriet, it DOES get better. dd started waking at 5 at 8months old, but by 1 really would take her bottle and go back to sleep. We were so unprepared for it, we used to bring her downstairs, give her her bottle and she'd fall asleep on our lap. After a week we stopped bringing her downstairs. She NEVER woke at 5am since then (6am sometimes but Never 5!)

Its just a phase, it will pass.

my heart goes out to you my ds has been like it since birth and even now is still up anywhere between 4am and 5am every morning he is now 3 its a killer espicaly when you have got the rest of the house to take care of as well
I dont know the answer but i will be
watching this for any clues. hang in there your not alone

We started WTS last week as my 10 month old has started to wake at 5am. We abandoned it after 2 nights as my LO became ill. RE-started it this morning, lightly roused him at 4am but he woke at 5:15am. He's not hungry he just wants to start the day! May move supper to 6pm if WTS doesn't work but going to giveit a 6 day go first.

Well, as predicted nothing has changed in my house.

Rubyslippers - I attempted to do the 'wake to sleeep' thing and for the past 2 nights he has woken up before my alarm went off. Once at 4am and this morning at 4.10am. Took me 20 minutes to get him back to sleep and he still woke up at 5.30am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shall I stick with it?

Yesterday morning, I ended up feeding him at about 6. Couldn't get him back to sleep (but was CLASSICLY grumpy until his nap at 7.45am)
This morning, thought 'Right, maybe he's hungry??? Answer 'Yeh, I'll have the milk, and now can we get up please??'.

My todddler woke me up at 3.55 this morning too, so again, I am dead on my feet. Brilliant start to the day isn't it?

anything to do with dawn chorus? my 19mo ds2 has been waking early (sometimes before 5 even) for 6 weeks or so and I think it's because the birds start up at around 4.30/4.45 and he sometimes wakes and drops off straight away for a short time, or just wakes and that's him wanting to get up. Then he goes back to bed for up to an hour after 8.30. Nightmare.

Giving mine milk then doesn't send him back to sleep at all .

BUT having given him dinner at 6pm, he's woken at 5:45am instead of 5am both times .

Thanks again for all your help ladies.

My DH dealt with him this morning. Gave him a bottle of milk and he went back to sleep till 6.30, so maybe he is hungry?!? Oh I dunno.

Rubyslippers - Thanks for the info. I am gonna give WTS another go. I'm locked in! 6 nights. Off we go.

I'll keep you posted!

my dd did this, from 8 months old til about 11 months. I do have to say that we started offering her a bottle of milk at 5am. Turns out she was just hungry

She would reject it at first, wanting actual food, and to start the day, but at around 11/12 months, she took the whole bottle and fell back to sleep until 6:30 (bliss)

one day she stopped waking for the bottle, but unfortunately, at around 20 months (she's now 21 months) she started waking at 5am again, so yet again she has a bottle of milk

As much as I wouold like to be one of those mothers who says "we stopped the bottle at 6 months old etc etc" I have to admit to being too damn tired to give a damn

Hope this helps.

ok - with our DS he woke at 5 am on the dot

we woke him at 4 am for 3 nights and seemed to shift things to a later wake up on those occasions

however, on the 4th night with no WTS he woke at 5am <<sob>>

SOOOOO .... what we had to do was WTS for 6 nights and that cracked it

it is grim BUT better, IMVHO, than waiting for the wake up call you know will happen anyway

when you rouse them you don't want them fully awake but nearly if that makes sense so it disrupts their old sleep cycle

Rubyslippers - Can you tell me a bit more about 'wake to sleep'? I have read all the blurb on it and tried it twice but to no avail.

He used to wake up at 5.25am on the dot. So I set my alarm for 4.25am and did the rousing thing. First night he woke at 5am. Second night and he woke at 5.15am. Third noight he woke at 4.55am. Fourth night woke before my alarm went off! and so on...

What do I do in that situation? Do I reset my alarm for 3.55am, cos the 4.25am waking didn't seem to work? Or do I have to wait until 3 consecutive wake-up times that are pretty much the same?

Why did you have to do it twice? What went wrong the first time? And when it went right, did your DS sleep past his normal wake time on the first night, or was it second or third?

Sorry for the detailed questions, but I have tried 'wake to sleep' twice now and got nowhere, but am prepared to try it again if I get a boost from someone!

Thanks

Harriet

We had this and we found that putting them to bed earlier actually helped (goodness knows why!) If they haven't had decent naps during the day (2 naps of at least an hour each) and seem grumpy and overtired then we put them to bed 6-6.30 and that seems to make them go through to 7. It's that weird situation where more sleep = more sleep. Good luck!

Thanks everyone.

It's nice to know I am not alone. I will try giving him tea later/a snack before bedtime, and yeh, the watered down milk thing might be a good compromise.

I am sure that I will still end up being frustrated with a capital F!

My sympathies!!! We have discovered by accident that moving dinner from 5pm to 6 or 6:15 (even better) helps. DS used to wake anything from 4:45-5:15am and it looks as if we can push it to 6ish.

DD1 was like this, she is still an early riser now but at least at age 5 it is more like 6ish...

i did find giving her something to eat at bedtime helped, toast, a scotch pancake, anything like that. also moving her tea time to 6pm helped but i guess by the time i did that she was about 3.

can you give him some very watered down warm milk at that time, still treat it like a night feed? it might just settle him for long enough to doze/rest and you can go back to bed. worth changing his nappy too, see if he has just wee'd and the warmth is waking him?

not sure what else to suggest, you're not doing anything obvious and seem to have tried the various techniques.

fwiw bright children often do wake very early ready to start the day!!

i have to play devils advocate on this one we actually instilled help from a sleep therapist when ds was 2 as we were so tired and we tried everything and it didnt work he just was ready that was his time

and if we woke him early he never went back to sleep lol

we used to roll him over but he'd still wake at 5

we tried everything

search the archives on here for wake to sleep

you should try it if you are sure it isn't hunger

you basically wake them an hour before their wake up (so for you 4.15 am)

do it for 3 nights

we did it with DS and it did work after 2 attempts

i'm going to be no help my ds has always woke at 5 am and his 4 and he still does

but i did try later bedtimes he still woke at 5 really didnt matter what i did

when he was a baby i made sure curtains were black out i would give a bottle and leave him and he would go back off again i would treat it as night time no talking just go in feed bottle leave

as he got older was unable to do this but still making sure i have the black out to try and get the extra hour

Both of my DS's were like this and I tried everything.
The only thing that worked for me was going to bed at 9pm, I'm afriad
You have my sympathy.

I had exactly this with my 9 month old DS2. My HV (whom I respect very much) told me that babies don't always get everything they need during their waking day so waking at 5am for a bottle is perfectly reasonable, until they're 12 months+.

I've followed her advice since last wk and he now gets up between 6 and 7.

HTH

Hi

Has anyone got any advice on how to deal with a 10 month old who has been waking at 5.15am for the last 2 months?

Here's the situation:

He goes to bed 7-7.30pm every night after bath and milk (8oz)
I don't rock him to sleep
He has black out blinds in his room
He is at the top of the house so there's no noise that should wake him up at that time
He eats well in the day
When he wakes up at 5.30am he is really grumpy - he definately needs to go back to sleep.
Most mornings I can get him back to sleep (after about 45 mins), by which time my 2.5 year old is usually up (grrrr).
I have tried 'wake to sleep'for 5 nights running - all that happened is his waking got earlier!
I have tried baby whisperer 'pick-up put down' for a month and it doesn't seem to be making any difference.
I do not feed him at 5.30am because I don't think he needs it. If I manage to get him back to sleep, when he wakes again he is chirpy and seems happy to wait for his bottle at about 7am. I also don't want to send the message that it's OK to wake for milk at that time.

I am so BORED and tired of starting my day so early. I look after both my kids all day every day and the days seem VERY long at the moment.

It might not seem so bad to some, but I have to contend with waking toddlers/bad dreams/teething/illness in the night as well so my the time 5am comes round I am well and truly DEAD ON MY FEET.

Please tell me - are there any strategies that really work on early waking? I am prepared to try anything.

Thanks

Harriet