Mumsnet Talk

Hello all

I'm hoping for some support and advice. I have a wonderful 18month old DS, who goes to sleep for naps and bedtime like a dream, and sleeps using a grobag. During the night he stirs, but can put himself back to sleep. He does sometimes sound unhappy though..
My problem is this. He wakes, most mornings at around 5 - 5.30am. Now if I had a pound for everyone who tells me - 'he has had enough sleep' I would be a rich woman. Also, if he woke up and was not so unhappy, quite often moaning and sounding as though he is trying to get back to sleep, then I would be prepared to live with it (I wouldn't be over the moon, but some babies are early risers). As it is, I am finding this all very distressing, and am not sure what to try next. He is OK once he is up and has had his bottle, but is absolutely exhausted, with all the signs. I love him so much, and want to help him to get that little extra sleep he needs, probably just a matter of an extra half hour. When he wakes at 6am he is much happier. What do others think? Should I get him out of the grobag - is he getting tangled up in it? Should I leave a drink of water in the bed, is he waking up because he is thirsty - would he know what to do..?

HELP! I am so sleep deprived I think it is starting to affect my mood and health. And I truly believe that my DS is not simply waking because he has had enough sleep. We have tried later bedtimes with no effect, except an ever tireder baby..I look forward to your advice..

Do you go straight into him when he wakes up at this time or do you leave him for a bit? I only ask because we had this with our ds at around that age - in the end we used to turn the baby monitor off and try to go back to sleep and after a few days he stopped (this might just have been luck of course and I know leaving him to whinge until he goes back to sleep may not be popular but it worked for us)

Start using a cot duvet now instead of a grobag. he probably wants to kick his covers off now he's older and he might be getting a bit warm, or he may be mopre aware of his nappy being wet.

we have a thing that ties to the side of the cot. it is called a sleep sheep, and we got it from kiddicare, but it was 2 years ago now. it makes 4 sounds, waves, rain, not sure of the others cause i dont use them.
i used to use it to get my dd to sleep if she was unsettled at night, but it means actually going into the room to switch it on.
in my experience, if i was to go into the room in a morning and then leave again, she would screams even more.
maybe there is someting on the market you could try, which is remote control?
this helped us, and soothed mt dd back to sleep.
although this was in the middle of the night, not mornings, so it might not work for you.
im sure i have seen things that come on on their own and make sounds to send them back to sleep.
anything is worth a try

Somebody also suggested to me the baby whisperers Wake to Sleep technique which I didn't get around to trying but somebody else on here might know more about it. From memory it basically means that your ds might be waking up out of habit rather than out of need so in order to break the habit you go into him before 5/5.30 and wake him yourself before settling him back to sleep.

might be worth a try

hi we are having the same with our dd who is almost 18 months. I know exactly what you mean. I know she hasn't had enough sleep - until a few weeks ago she was sleeping 7.30pm until 6.45am, now she's awake at 5.30, yesterday 5am!! I know a few people who can successfully get their dc's back to sleep with a bottle at that time, unfortunately my dd seems to want to play!!!! Although yesterday at 5am we were so desperate we gave her a beaker of milk and put her in bed with us, with the lights out, and luckily got her back to sleep until 6.45. Wish I knew what it was that was waking her though. Some advice I had recently was to cut short her daytime nap from her usual 2 or 2.5 hours to 90 mins, so that she doesn't make up the lost sleep during the day, and keep her awake as long as possible during the morning so that she is still having her nap at the same time (despite being awake so early that she would happily go to sleep at 10am!). So i guess you could look at how much sleep your ds gets during the day? Also, any change you make to their routine (eg like time you put them to bed) can take a couple of weeks to settle in to, so if you can't sort out the ealry waking and want to put hiim to bed later so he wakes later, then keep going with that and don't give up if it doesn't work within a couple of days. Other than that, we go to bed at 9 when dd is waking so early ,at least then we've had a good 8 or 9 hours sleep by 5, also we take it in turns to have lie-ins when we need them!!!!!

also forgot to add that we tried taking dd out of grobags recently (before we had to buy the 18-36 months size) all that happened was she woke in the middle of the night absolutely freezing cold and disorientated. So if you decide to try, then make sure you get him some really warm all in one sleep suits with feet!! Not sure I think it's that that's waking him though, otherwise he'd get tangled all night surely and not just first thing in the morning?

Thanks to you all for getting back to me so quickly! There are some really good ideas here to try. I agree lizandlulu - I think going in and trying to leave again might cause upset. It would make me nervous about the wake to sleep method as well, but if there is anyone with experience who could comment I would be very interested, and might give that a try. The late bedtimes are hard because he has only ever napped in the morning (I KNOW, I've really tried but no joy)so come 7 - 7.30 he is well and truly ready for bed!

Countryhousehotel - thanks for your agreement re the too little sleep - its helpful now as I have just returned from MIL who basically thinks I should just accept it!

mother in laws forget how hard things can be.
just remember he is your child and it is up to you what you do.
my mil keeps going on about potty training my 2.2 dd. but i know there is no way she is ready.

this probably isn't the best advice but it works for us:

i go into DD2 when she wakes at this time if she won't go back to sleep, give her a bottle, change her nappy, lots of shush shush sleepy time and then leave.

She tends to have the bottle and go back to sleep for an hour or two if we're lucky.

I know everyone is probably shouting "NO NO NO" at the computer but after a year of DD1 getting up at 5.30 (but she was happy and had had enough sleep) there was no way i was going through that with DD2. I tried everything else and she just wouldn't settle. She wanted a warm drink (she gets just 1/2 scoop of formula in warm water) and a clean nappy (it is quite wet).

My ds2 (17 months) wakes at about 5am He started walking at 4.30am when the clocks went back and woke at that time every day until recently when he had a D&V bug and slept til a lot later. I hoped that this had broken the pattern of the early mornings, but since then he has styarted to creep back towrds the earlier time

Peopel keep telling me it is because he goes to bed early, but it isn't (more like he goes to bed early because he wakes up so early!) He i also not ready to wake up at that time and is such a grump

some children just don't sleep soundly for 12 hours (deep sigh)

things which might help:

snuggling into bed with parents. For some children that's enough to help them drop straight off again

White noise around them. A radio between stations playing very quietly?

parent going to bed really early so that a 530 am isn't a disaster for them at least

playing quietly for an hour or two, and then going back to bed together

Nappy change worth trying in case they are very wet. Yes, offer drink and simple snack (which, being a domestic goddess, you will of course have got ready the night before haha)

Snuggle together on the sofa in case lying down was what was uncomfortable.

When children don't sleep well, we analyse and analyse and try to work out what is causing the inconvenient waking and then, eventually, we realise that it is 3 weeks since there was a night time disturbance and that this too has passed, often without our ever having figured it out.

one of the best pieces of advice i was ever gives is 'everything is just a phase'
you have to bear that in mind, even at 5am!

How cold is the bedroom, my ds 2.2 usually stires when the temp drops 4-5am.
I cover him up with a warm blanket underneath the covers and this seems to help.
Thick pj s no good as he is a hot baby and would be restless. also put socks on him pulled up to his knees, (very handsome).
Hope this helps, it works for us.

my dd 6 was dream baby slept til 8/9 am no problems. just doesnt stop talking now.

Hi I had this for 6 months and it nearly killed me! I had to be mean though as was working full time and pregnant as well so checked he was ok, not wet etc and ignored him. It was hell for a good week but after that he got the message and sleeps till 8am now and is so much nicer for it. Before I became cruel though I would go in and give him a bottle or just get him up. I did kept getting told 'its just a phase' though and hopefully it will be.

I'll be interested to know how you get on and what you find works for you. We are having the exact same problem with our 18mo and its driving me mad. the odd days he has woken up later he is a different child so I know he need to go back to sleep. i have resorted to giving a bottle and putting back down to sleep, but now he has started waking even earlier for the bottle! Good luck, I hope it helps just knowing you are not the only one.

had a few more thoughts on this... have you tried giving him a late snack, like weetabix or ready brek with hot milk just before going to bed. That works with DD1 when i want her to sleep in. She is now 3 1/2 though so different things are probably more effective at different ages.

Also we have just moved to these snugglesacs and DD1 is sleeping much better and later.

our house isn't cold, the thermometer in DD2's room is usually about 19-21 deg but these seem to keep them extra cosy.

Hi

Well here I am after another early start! It does help to know we are not alone, and that it is unlikely to be anything I am doing wrong - I just so want to get this right!
Today I have tried delaying his nap, he usually goes down about 10-10.30 as he is so tired, but he has gone down at 11.45. It was hard though - apart from the early mornings we have a really nice routine and I think he was a bit freaked out today - as was I! Anyway, will try this for a couple of days and see if it makes any difference. perhaps the mumsnetters who are going through the same problem could let me know what their little ones do for naps?
Amidaiwish - I have just recently been giving him a satsuma or banana while we watch night garden - so might step this up into something more substantial if he will take it - although evening meals are never his strongest point!
Anyway - on we go! Thanks again everyone

Hi Elsie, dd up early too, at 5.40am, but we didn't rush in and amazingly she went back to sleep until 6.15. Interesting to hear about your ds napping at 10am, by 18 months everything i have read and been told suggests that they ought to be moving towards one long nap a day in the middle of the day although of course they are all so different, and some are ready for it sooner than others. But perhaps that is affecting the early waking so keeping him awake later is somewhere to start, also making sure he doesn't sleep for more than a couple of hours during the day.

DD used to wake around that time. We got her to sleep more by treating it as a nighttime waking - not turning on the lights, just holding her for a moment and putting her back in her cot, shh-shhing and whispering to her that it is still nighttime. No milk. It took a while but she got the message. Now she wakes up between 8:30 and 9:00

Agree with Countryhouse about trying to move your baby's nap back until lunchtime. We had exactly the same problem with our DD1, and we had to just suffer a few days of a trying to keep a tired and crotchety baby awake, first until 11, then until 12 and then until 1pm. Once we had successfully moved the nap to after lunch, she started having 2-3 hour naps, still going to bed quite happily at 7pm and sleeping through until 6.30/7am. HTH

Ok - the nap feels like a good place to start. It will take some getting used to, but i hope it will work. We have been only getting one nap a day from him since he was about 8-9months anyway, so worth experimenting! Thanks for all the tips, will let you know how we get on.

Bodkin - just to give me hope - can you remember how long it took to see a change? I really feel so drained and emotional right now..

ermm.... <<looks back through the mists of time....>> about a week? Can't remember exactly (she's nearly 4 now!) but I know that it definitely fixed the early morning wakings. Good luck!

Hi. Sorry if these things have already been said, just skimmed the thread. The time he wakes is the time dd vaguely stirs then puts herself back to sleep. The trick is for him to sleep through it.
You could try Medised as a one off. If that helps him sleep through past 5, it might help reset his routine.
Early naps are linked to early morning waking. So you're right to try to nap him later. I think dd went down at 12.30 for 1.5 hours at 18 months.

Well - would you believe it.. After a nap at 11.45 yesterday, my little superstar made it until 6.45 this am! A couple of stirs, but settled himself back again. Now I'm not about to count my chickens here at all, chances are this was one of those 'catch up nights', but have tried a late nap again today, so fingers crossed!