PND - is it too early?

[Oeisha]

So, Snufflix is 10 days old.
My pregnancy sucked - no major issues bar an admission at 31wks with a UTI and contractions, but I didn't get more than a fleeting moments enjoyment out of it.

She's great. A really good baby. She's not got the hang of breastfeeding, and for my own sanity we're moving on to formula, this is day 2 of switching...which of course mentally I'm equating with poison at points. But, she's fine, progressing well etc.

Anyway, basically, is it too 'early' for me to have PND?

I had a fast back to back (exceedingly painful after about the 3rd contraction where we think she turned from LOA to OP and then tried to rotate throughout the whole labour) that ended up with 3h of trying to do the last 3 pushes and failing, so forceps. I was begging for an epidural when we got to hsopital but they kept telling me it was too late...despite it taking another 2h to get to the stage where it failed to progress.
After the delivery I was given a spinal for a retained placenta, and whilst I think I'm ok with this bit, I had a reaction to what we think was the spinal. My legs wouldn't stop wobbling and my reflexes took ages to return...but they did, but I think I'm ok with this.

Anyway, was kept in hospital for 5 days due to lack of BF, but came home expressing...which is an utter nightmare and one which FF will get me away from.

I feel unbelievably distant from Snufflix.

I will cry at anything (just rang MW for some cord bleeding reassurance and burst into tears before I could say anything). At the moment we're co-sleeping, which I'm not really enjoying, but am liking I think.

I've had depression before, and this feels very similar. I'm low, being very 'practical' (washing, cleaning etc, trying to distract myself), I'm fairly sleepy. Everyone round me keeps telling me how filled with love they are for her and it's just not the same for me I don't think.

I just can't shake the feeling that getting pregnant and having my lovely baby was the worst mistake ever, and I'll never not feel like this. I look at the future and I just see a nightmare. I'm not enjoying any of it and am resenting not being able to do 'silly' things like snuggle my cats, or just play computer games etc.

When she cries I just feel remote. I deal with her and want to when she cries because no baby should be left to cry. I shower her with kisses and snuggles but something's missing. I look at her and I do love her I think.

I keep having horrid flashes of me drowning Snufflix, which is frightening the shit out of me deeply - when last depressed I got a similar thing of images of me trying to kill myself. Then the counsellor I saw said it was more typical of PND or PTSD, but as long as it was frightening me, that was a good thing. But as I've said, it's bloody frightening, I can hear the screaming and just see her perfect little face all panicked...and it's hideous.

I've filled an online version of the Edinburgh PND scale in a couple of times and come up with 26 both times...which is partly reassuring as it indicates a problem, but also not for fairly obvious reasons.

I've made a doctors appointment for tomorrow morning. I'm just petrified that they're going to tell me it's too early and this is all "normal", and I'll come away feeling like this, but with no support. I'm also petrified that Snufflix won't take to formula (still trying to migrate, day 2 of trying) and I really have no idea how the hell I'll cope then.

My DH is being great, absolutely great, as are my PND friends, but I just can't be feeling like this all the time, especially when DH goes back to work at the end of next week. He's also struggling to know what to do for me, and is finding it frustrating as basically, he's dong everything he can.

Is there anyone out there that can reassure me that all of this isn't just "normal" and that my instinct that there's something very wrong with me is right?

[slackandbaggy]

I think every mum has some degree of PND at some time. And am sure lots can identify with the 'distance' you describe. It can be very hard to love such a demanding little being who appears to not even know who you are, let alone love you back.
However, these feelings are normally self limiting and get better with some useful support and time.
You are doing the right thing by asking for help. If your GP does not help, please, please see another one. Or speak to a good HV.
Good luck and it will get better.

[Oeisha]

Thank you slack
The MW yesterday did mention to me about the opportunity to go through my notes with a senior MW/consultant, so maybe, when I'm a bit more settled, I'll look in to that.

[pinkorkid]

Hi oeisha,

10 days after birth is not too early- for some depression starts during the pregnancy. It sounds like you had a very traumatic birth experience and that together with the plunging hormones are quite likely to add up to pnd. You are doing the right thing speaking to gp. With help of anti-depressants and counselling you will get through this.

[Oeisha]

Well, my GP wasn't totally dismissive, and was supportive, and agrees that making my life simpler by FF is wise. I'm going back in 2 weeks, but can go back sooner if I feel like I'm losing control. Seeing HV Monday as it is, so will see what they think too. As I'm apparently functioning so well they're reluctent to give me meds at the moment (whilst still expressing). Snufflix has taken the last few FF's fine, so hopefully I can start to reduce the expressing even further.

She did ask how I felt during pg and I said I hated it, but didn't think my mood was classically depressed then. She agreed it sounded like a PTSD reaction to the birth too, and we're hoping that will fade too...but I know I can ask for a walk-through if needed.

I just know where this is going, despite wanting to fight it every step. I really want her to be right, and I'll feel ok in a few weeks. I will be going back (or DH will be taking me back) if I get any worse. Mornings are my good time oddly...ask me again this evening and I may be begging for haldol and a straighgt jacket.

[Oeisha]

OK, so 10 days later, I'm still scoring a 26 on the Edinburgh scale...
I do feel a little better...
What's changed?

1. I couldn't let go of BF - mentally I was hoping it might bring me closer to DD, still early days (Sunday saw BF sepcialist), so maybe it will. After mastitis and upping expressing to clear that, my supply came back up again, so we saw BF specialist who got us latched very quickly...only now, I have sore nipples. I'm assuming my latch is wrong, so will keep trying at that. But now I'm finding I'm hating feedin her because of the pain. That and I'm still very ill tempered with her in the middle of the night and find it hard not to be rough with her/just fling her out the window. Yet she's so bloody small and needy and it isn't her fault...and that makes me feel fucking terrible.
   
2. My quality of sleep's dropped significantly...was like this before BF mind you. If anything she's got more needy. Wll sleep okish is the moses basket during the day, but insists on being with me at night...ok, but when I'm having thoughts like "well, if I did roll over and kill her, would it be terrible?! everyone would be sad, but at least it'd be over with" I have no idea if this is wise or not.
   
3. Still have no appetite at all.
   
4. Frequent headaches - probably mild refractory migraines in fact (flashing lights, right-side weakness, inability to recall nouns - all migraine symptoms for me). Super-stressful, especially at 3/4am...adding to the desire to throw baby out the window.
   
   OK, so maybe I should be seeing the doc sooner than 22nd?!

[Oeisha]

So, it all went literally tits-up Thursday.
Admitted to hospital Friday with another bout of mastitis as I couldn't tollerate oral ABs. Finally been 'let out' today.

Thankfully it wasn't/isn't cyst-driven mastitis, so I didn't need surgery, but my breast swelled significantly.

Ended up with a very, very high temp causing rigors (violent enough to move the bed) for about 14h and at one point had 3 doctors 2 nurses a err, HCA and my MIL (mopping my head), all of them regularly saying "you're going to be ok" (which, combined with the readings I could see and the look on MIL's face, meant "holy-shiiiiit this shouldn't be happening"), whilst they held me down to take bloods and whack me on a CTG as my heartrate plummited...so, yes, it's been great.

I ws on 3 different IV antibiotics, so whatever it was, they hit it HARD and that seems to have worked well. Am now only on Augmentin orally.

Off to the breast clinic next Monday for a review, but they've told me to wear decent underwired bras, as the mastitis isn't being caused by blocked ducts etc and being a K cup, the weight of the breasts is making it all worse so a decent bra is needed.

Needless to say, any spirit for fighting to BF I had, has been destroyed (partly because they said this would probably happen again, maybe not so badly) and thanks to DH looking after Snufflix at home, she's going to be exclusively FF (I might save some of the expressed and freezer it for a 1 a day feed), so I can cut back the expressing.

I also def. need help with the birth/my sanity. I ended up being transferred from surgical admissions, where I was already fairly mental with guilt for abandoning my DH and not missing/wanting to see Snufflix at all...
...to be wheeled in to the Women's Unit and start having horrid flashbacks to the many times in pregnancy I went in and, the birth, and the stay on maternity too...

Now I'm having bouts of OK (as in able to not cry and joke about being so bat-shit mental) interspersed with bouts of sobbing uncontrollably....especially when some well-meaning person had just finished talking to me about how much I must be missing my baby...or post-flashback.

I can't face the GP tomorrow, so will go to the alloted appointment on Wed. The doctors in hospital all agreed with me that I blatantly have PND and should get treated asap, so that's something.

Now I've just got the challenge of having to get back to dealing with Snufflix allover again. DH is off work tomorrow, but really can't take any more time. Oh well...I guess I'll be fine.

[eve34]

Oeisha please, please dont beat yourself up over this. when I had my son I cared for him, but didn't really fall in love with him for a few months. Your baby is still so young and you are adjusting to being a mum. It is so hard. FF is not the end of the world. You have given her a good head start. Also you have both got through a very traumatic time.

Be honest with the doctor and those around you, let them help do you have home start where you are. Get the support around you now.

I drifted for months smiling at the right people it went on for nearly 2 years pretending everything was ok and I was falling apart inside.

You will get through this.

[Drainpipe]

My beautiful H, I hope you will forgive me for "hunting you down" but I am incredibly worried about you and really want to help. Please believe me that I could have written everything that you have above, along with thinking things like, when out driving, "I could just drive into a wall and then we'd all be dead" or "will someone please crash into me so it's not my fault". I really have been there. The resentment that other people seem to love your child more than you do - I've felt it. On the odd occasion that I was out in the car on my own, I used to dream about just carrying on driving, to who knows where, just to not have to return to my screaming son.
And both times the meds have taken a while to work, to get the dose right, to start feeling "normal" again. A was 16 months old when I was finally OK again, and although I got on top of the PND with S quicker, it's still not gone and I'm still wondering whether going up to a higher dose might be a good idea (which would be higher than ever before). I love you with all my heart and my offer is still open if I can sort it with work.
HUGE hugs my sweet.

[Oeisha]

Thank you eve. I am telling anyone that asks about the depression. I see no point in hiding quite how shit I feel from those that should know, and partly telling people makes me think maybe they'll think twice about people around them and hopefully it might make all the difference to someone suffering in silence. One thing I do know from the depression before is ignoring it is NOT going to help, as will talking it out. Hense why I'm coming back to this thread to type. Seems to help.

H! I knew it was you from the name-thingy (humm, not a great night's sleep, can't remember things). Thanks for tracking me down too. Means a lot. Yes, def. get a higher dose and try it. I'm OK mostly. As I said, having been depressed before, I know this and that I will be OK...I will. OK it doesn't help when I'm having a melt-down, but for the OK bits it does.

Snufflix is currently asleep in the sling on me and she actually slept in her moses basket by the bed for DH lastnight! Good wee beast...she did however neck a load of formula overnight (500ml in total) so we're expecting a sleepy day and hectic night tonight! I don't feel as terrified of her today, and she keeps smiling at me, so I'm taking that as her remembering me and being pleased to see me.

[Dalrymps]

Sorry you're going through this I just wanted to say please bear in mind that your hormones will be all over the place due to the Breastfeeding stopping and starting. Just incase you wondered why you might feel like you're getting worse then better then worse iyswim? When you stop Breastfeeding it's common to feel a bit down till you readjust anyway so just bear that in mind

I don't mean this is the reason you are feeling like you are, obviously you are suffering with PND. I just mean it may be making things worse at points. Your baby will be perfectly fine no matter how she's fed so don't beat yourself up. Just concentrate on looking after you and getting better x

[Drainpipe]

Oh yes, I agree with Dalrymps on the BFing thing too. I was discharged from the local MHT the day I stopped BFing, and told to stop my meds cold turkey. Talk about bad timing! (and bad advice from a psychicatrist). It was an awful combination. And I know many people who, even when very happy to stop, and with no PND, still felt low after stopping.
And yes - you will be ok - it might just take a while. Ring me whenever you fancy a chat / cry.
I'll try and look tonight to see if I have a record of what I wrote at the time so you can see how closely it echos what you have written (although it might be on G's external hard drive).

[eve34]

oeisha
So glad you popped back to this thread and do take drainpipe up on her kind offer. It is good to see people who have had the same experiencies. I am not ashamed to tell people how down I was although all new mums I know (not very many) seem to of sailed through.

We are expect second DC at the end of May and I will do whatever I have to not to go through the same experience again.

Rest when you can, eat lots and take very good care of yourself.

[Oeisha]

Drs put me on citalopram (as it worked well for me before) and we're halting giving missy my expressed milk. A little upsetting to have to bin it all, but ultimatly worth it. Will see what the breast clinic says on the 2nd about what I can do to speed up the stopping. Dr was relucent to give me anything to stop it in case it inflamed me any more.
Snufflix had a good cluster feed lastnight pre-bed, so slept 'til about 5 and then was restless but not wanting food, and finally fed at 8am...so that's not a bad night's sleep!
Actually got to sleep in my old bed too, as we've had some luck with her in the moses basket by that bed. Just at some point have to persuade her to sleep in the nursery...

[Drainpipe]

No hurry on the nursery - SIDS advice is all sleeps in the same room as you until they're six months old.
Fingers crossed the citalopram starts working soon.

[Oeisha]

Difficult to tell if the citalopram is working. Think I'll definitely up the dose to 20mg as I still feel fairly mental.
I'm less tearful according to DH, but I think this is partly because I'm getting better at just not crying and partly because I feel like I care less, about everything.
All the other mental is still there. Super-tired, causing migraines which isn't helping. Again, the citalopram should help with them too, but meanwhile and sleep I get whilst I have a migraine really doesn't count as proper sleep, so I feel very zombified (I'm sure the citalopram isn't helping that feeling either. Hated being on it before, despite knowing it was working).
DH is away tonight, I think we're doing ok. We're both still alive. She's had a very fussy and sleepy day, so I suspect I'll pay for that tonight.
She's also started to yell when she farts again. As well as giving up her usual "feed me" cues she's being difficult to read today.
Suppose I'd better try and eat something (time wise and actually, still have no appetite, still losing weight fairly rapidly)...

[Oeisha]

So, how have I been?
OK, I think I'm OK. Not good, not not depressed, but OK. Everything feels more managable. I'm still having my moments, still getting the hideous imigary and still having the "oh gods, why did I think this was a good idea" and "if I just died then it'd all be less trauma", and the desire to leave the house and just keep walking, but I know that's just the mentalness talking. No actual compulsion to top myself.
SO, I htink the citalopram's working a bit now it's upped. The lows are a bit less dramatic, and that's all I really wanted from the drugs.
...ok, she's crying. Had better go...

[eve34]

Evening hope you are ok. I was on citalopram, 20mg then 40 and then 60! I slept loads whenever the baby did and some. Also I just felt numbs from all emotions I found but that helped me cope. Although i had pnd, my other half left me so was then just depressed as well and functioning was at a minimum.

Every new mum goes through the what the bloody hell have I done this for!!!! It is life changing, but so rewarding.

Try and get out everyday even just to the local shop for milk. Let people take over, cook, feed the baby etc. you are no less of a person or mum for letting others do. I thought I had to be super human to prove to everyone I was ok.

Just take each day as it comes and enjoy being able to be home with your baby. These are moments you only ever get once. I loved the night feed. once we had a routibe of 1 feed a night it was just me and my beautiful baby.

I am certain you are doing just fine. Do keep updating your thread though if it helps you.

[Oeisha]

I went out to a Mum and babies group (in conjunction with HVs) and it was actually quite good. The were all bf, so that left me feeling a bit as, well, I'd love to bf, but know I can't risk mastitis again, and the citalopram goes into my milk, and it is nice to be able to take codeine when my head's bad.

Unfortunatly it meant getting me (not so much Snufflix) up earlier than the small routine we've gotten in to, and it's over the other side of town, so took up 0930-1430 basically (with a nip to the postoffice and to get some dinner). We've had a bit of a nap this afternoon, but I'm really bloody tired and my head hurts - I'm trying not to take codeine...but I'm probably going to have to give in at bedtime.

Suppose I'd better go eat. Forgot to eat until 2pm today...

[Oeisha]

I just need somewhere to, well moan I guess.

DH is blatantly bi-polar. He's known this for a while. As have I. He's mostly 100% functioning and fine and has until now been non-medicated. He's had a few moments where he's had a bit of a "mental" time, but he's usually come through it fine.

So, after all the stress of pregnancy, birth and my hospitalisation, as much as I love him and understand, he's been being an utter jerk on and off. To the point that he will shout at Snufflix, pretty badly. He knows to put her in her basket/cot/on the bed and walk away but he doesn't always do this and yells at her. Especially if he's tired. I can see him getting wound up but he's so bloody stubborn he won't let me help him out.

He went to the doctors 2 Fridays ago to get it "sorted", and the doctor looked at him like maybe he was going to commit some form of hideous crime any day. Now, I partly think this is guilt on the docs behalf (as he's usually a very good doc) as DH has been there twice now, and being bi-polar and ok post appointment last time, didn't push the referal. I think he scared DH into not feeling like he's controlling it well on the whole "how do you know you're in control when you're feeling manic...you might just THINK you are...and you're looking after a baby".
But, the visit's upset (as in mood wise) him and left him allover the place. And the NHS being what it is, he can't get an appointment with the MHT for another month.

Meanwhile he's VERY irritable, pretty manic, being VERY selfish (like organising things that will take all day Saturday without us - 3rd time since I got home from hospital) promising to do all the "childcare" on the Sunday, but then not/"refusing" to deal with nappies (I'll ask, he then moans and it's just easier if I do it), insisiting on having a couple of hours on the Sunday (at least) to do his thing, ignoring Snufflix to the point she gets bored and cries and then instead of recognising the boredom, tries to feed her and wonders why she just spits it out and gets cross. He then gets cross and if I'm not there to intervene he sometimes shouts. Same with nappy changes. If she's yelling he'll sometimes shout, or not do the massage if he "can't be bothered" and I have to step in. He will then wonder why, when he's ok, she doesn't find him calming when she's in a complete rage (this is why I saw no point in having him flexi her jab day).

Mostly, he's a loving, generous, kind and caring DH and Daddy and I love him to bits. Hopefully the MHT will take it seriously and give him the meds he needs. As I speak he's currently being ace and snuggling Snufflix having just fed her, and seems to have genuinely missed her all day.

Meanwhile I'm fielding it all, and I know this is wearing me down, especially with the PND, and I have occasionally (not shouted, I dont' shout), poitned out to DH that he's being a jerk, but there's little point in nagging, as he will just dig his heals in and insist on keeping feeding her/changing her/whatever it is.

I know there's not much anyone can do, bar him and the MHT, but I dunno. I needed a rant about it.

My mood is much better. It's all still there, just not turned up to eleven IYSWIM, so it's all copable with a lot of the time, even if I don't see it that way. The upsetting images are fewer, and I am beginning to enjoy Snufflix. It's still pretty bad though apparently (still scoring a 20 on the rest).

Anyway, my dinner's almose ready.

[vanillacremebrulee]

I suppose it's hard for him too. Having a baby is really hard work and perhaps you need to adjust to your new life. My DH told me he feels neglected and it's probably true but I just have nothing more in me to give at the moment (we have an 8 week old extremely colicky DS). I found that in the first few weeks after his birth I felt closer to him than I ever did but now
It's slipped away.