Sick & tired of B*****it like Sandbergs "lean In".

(15 Posts)
BratinghamPalace Thu 14-Mar-13 18:38:14

This bloody rolled out, predictable, irritating drivel about how us women should learn to just ask, lean in and not shy away. And if we manage to dominate ourselves we may rise to the top. Ignoring inconvenient truths like the architecture of the work place was designed for and by men in the the last century and maybe we need to tackle that rather than change the ENTIRE BLOODY FEMALE workforce so that they we can get ahead. It is obviously a structural fault with all working females the world over. Thank you for reading, rant over! (Have been ranting at the radio and upsetting the DCS!n

drjohnsonscat Thu 14-Mar-13 18:49:43

Thank you Bratingham. This has been brewing in me for days.

Love that, you know, we just need to lean in a bit more and thousands of years of oppression will go away. I'm going to try that on black activists just for fun - "why don't you try just making a bit more effort and being a bit pushier? All that oppression and slavery stuff is something you can overcome with a bit of ambition and assertiveness training".

Oh and while I'm leaning in over at the workplace I'll be leaning out at home and watching all the men come running to fill the drudgery-shaped space I've left...

WorraLiberty Thu 14-Mar-13 18:52:12

I'm not sure what you're asking OP?

Carolra Thu 14-Mar-13 18:59:32

I'd never heard of her before a couple if weeks ago, but she came and did a talk at my office... I found her style quite irritating and a bit patronising but in fairness to the lady, she did say that men need to change as well as women... Her focus was on women's innate characteristics that result in us sabotaging ourselves but she talked a lot about how some behaviours in men are applauded (ambition, assertiveness etc) that are seen as unattractive in women. She is trying to help.... I don't think she has all of the answers but she must have some of them... She leaves the office at 5.30 every day to cook dinner for her kids and she's on the Time 100 most influential list.

drjohnsonscat Thu 14-Mar-13 19:00:58

I think it was pure rant worra grin

But a worthwhile one because I have been building up a head of steam on that bloody book too so Bratingham has saved me from having a screaming fit next time someone thinks of yet another way in which women should change before they are eligible to be successful.

bigkidsdidit Thu 14-Mar-13 19:03:00

I think this is unfair. she's not set herself up to change all the problems in the world, just one. She;s not a feminist theorist but a hugely successful businesswoman who also has two children, leaves work at 5.30 every day (very unusual in her work) and goes to all school events.

The world of work is structured for men, I totally agree with you, and we need to change that. But individually, we can all change ourselves AS WELL; ask for pay rises and promotions, refuse to give in.

I find her very inspiring

bigkidsdidit Thu 14-Mar-13 19:05:24

Hadley Freeman wrote a good article on this yesterday

here

DoJo Thu 14-Mar-13 19:12:16

I heard her talking about how women sabotage themselves by, for example, bowing out of taking on new projects and applying for promotions if they are TTC or considering it, and that sounded pretty spot on. Whilst it would be nice if workplaces and the career landscape as a whole were to change, there is no incentive for this to happen as long as it is male dominated, whereas if women can use her advice, or anyone else's, to get what they want then change can happen from the inside. It is too easy to dismiss those who say 'we shouldn't have to change' if they aren't in a position to make that a reality.

drjohnsonscat Thu 14-Mar-13 19:12:41

I might be particularly irritated bigkids because I have followed her path. I have "leaned in", not followed a traditional female route at home or at work and I am really quite assertive. Despite all that, I am bowled over every day by the depressing frequency with which I encounter men who don't get it, who think women are different/lesser, who are scared of me because I am a woman with some power.

I am probably a bit sensitive to this issue right now as I was realising today, in the course of some work I was doing, how rare it is to see a man talk about women's issues in a public domain such as Twitter with any awareness or thoughtfulness. The Vicky Pryce situation where her character was demeaned by the judge whereas her exh was described in terms of his actions is a case in point.

We should absolutely all ask for more - I agree with that. But why are we sending women on assertiveness courses rather than sending men on "stop bullshitting and promoting in your own image" courses.

stickygingerbread Thu 14-Mar-13 19:16:45

yanbu, I rolled my eyes as well. Especially upon reading a review of the book which seems to propose simultaneously that we must retain and jettison ourselves. Do what we are doing and do the opposite. Value and and yet reject.

Worse yet, a coworker used the phrase 'lean in' in a work conversation yesterday. Gritted teeth. How long will the fad last?

Opportunist hyping herself.

bigkidsdidit Thu 14-Mar-13 19:17:23

but the thing is dr at the moment the men run the show. And they are not going to read the internet and say ' do you know what, the women have a point, let's hand over half the power'. They just aren't. We have to grab it. And when a few of us have it we can make it better for other women unless we are Mrs T

she says she has worked on improving stuff for pregnant women and parents at google and facebook. Well, great!

I remember coming on here a few years ago and reading a omment by Xenia, and a month later being offered a job. I summoned my inner Xenia grin and asked for a higher starting salary and they just gave it to me, with no quibbling. I was shock.

I know exactly what you mean and how bloody depressing it it each and every day but at least you are doing it, you are making a small difference and making it slightly easier for the next lot of women?

drjohnsonscat Thu 14-Mar-13 19:25:38

you are right bigkids. I have recruited a lot of women all of whom are amazing, so perhaps we can't see the progress when we are in it. They are now accepted as excellent and are totally embedded in the firm but my male colleagues probably would not have seen their potential. They do see it now.

I'm just so depressed by the huge misogyny around me. There seem to be so many men who cannot even hear the word "women" without making some negative comment. Or who just see absolutely everything in gender terms. We are having a minor HR issue at work and of course it's because the two people concerned are women, rather than because the two people concerned are people. My fear is that, yes, we have to reach out and grab power but that it actually creates a lot of fear and that causes problems for us all. I would rather that the answer was couched in terms of what men could gain by taking their full part in family life.

BratinghamPalace Fri 15-Mar-13 06:42:05

Sorry to start and run but I had to lean out (hee hee) and do some underpaid, undervalued and extremely important work! This woman is really irritating me. I think I am annoyed by the fact that she is so successful and therefore I expect a lot more from her. It is pretty much a rehash of everything that has been written time and again about us buy some uber accomplished someone. I hoped for some insight, some astute observation and a little originality. She paid no attention at all to so many things. What for example does she think of Uni stats at the moment with young women leaving with much better degrees than their male counterparts. Does that imply that we are not competitive? No, quite the opposite. It shows what can happen on a level playing field. Why did she ignore the architecture of the work place, designed in the 19th century. There is so much wrong and I just really hate it when we are reduced to a " it is your own fault anyway, if only you had asked the right way".
And this, by the way, is not a woman's issue. It is a society issue.

bigkidsdidit Fri 15-Mar-13 08:06:15

I think Dr we are actually in complete agreement grin

Popcornia Sat 16-Mar-13 17:15:11

OP, you've made me really curious. Have you read the book?

I just read this excerpt, and none of your criticisms of Sandberg seem valid. She DOES talk about institutional sexism, she DOES talk about women leaving university with better qualifications than men, she DOES talk about sexist socialisation of young girls and boys.

However, she also is aware that she is not going to change any of that on her own, so she's looking at what she's done to get to a COO position. She's identified some ways of dealing with internal and external barriers that hold women back. There are also men who are part of her Lean In collective who are writing about their decisions to engage more as fathers and NOT just expect their partners to pick up all the parenting and household tasks.

Sorry, I just don't get your outrage.

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