for being really fecked off with GPs

(135 Posts)
banana87 Wed 13-Mar-13 23:32:52

I understand that antibiotics do not work when you have a viral infection.

However, last week DD2 (15m) was clearly not right. I called GP and told them her symptoms (sleeping 17+ hours, bad cough, high fever, not eating). They told me (over the phone) that it was a virus. Wait it out. I waited 2 days and took her to see a private GP who immediately diagnosed her with a chest infection and prescribed antibiotics.

My SIL has been sick since end of last week. She is getting progressively worse (same symptoms as above other than sleeping!). She phoned GP Monday. He told her (over the phone) it was a virus, take paracetemol and wait it out. It got to the point that she felt her chest tightening and heavy so went in the next day (yesterday). He acknowledged that she was quite ill, but gave her an inhaler and said it wasn't an infection. She's worse today than she was yesterday and is now going to see a private GP.

Last winter my DD1 had persistent high fevers that did not respond to calpol or neurofen. We were in A&E twice and dr twice. Every time, "it's just a virus". After 6 weeks I had enough and took her in and said I wanted her to have blood tests as I was convinced she had cancer. Funnily, they gave me antibiotics even though "there is no sign of infection" and within 3 days the fevers were gone and have never returned.

Also last winter my then 5 week old baby had a high temp. I took her to the GP. "Just a virus". Next day, same thing and on call dr had us go straight to A&E where I was told "it's just a virus". Luckily a very good consultant was on call and thought it would be wise to do a chest x-ray "just in case". She had PNEUMONIA.

I understand that there are worries about antibiotic resistance. But what is the point in withholding antibiotics until one is so sick that there is no other option? In all of the above examples, antibiotics were or are currently being withheld needlessly. Why?

MrsKeithRichards Sun 17-Mar-13 23:04:35

My Gp laughs and tells us he wanted to be a vet but failed the exams.

He's fantastic.

Isitme1 Sun 17-Mar-13 22:52:54

Op I understand what you mean in the op.

However its the other way around for us.
Gp gives antibiotics out like sweets then complains. He won't refer due to 'pct tying his hands' and he is reluctant to give the meds ds really needs (ds has long term health issues so a lot of meds).
He did however help when ds jad meningitis. He prescribed course of abs and sent him to hosp to be sent home 'its just a virus' to 24 hours later being transferred by ambulance.
Im seeing him tomorrow. He sees me and starts.

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 22:35:19

if you want better more treatment, go private. the NHS does not have bottomless resources and they need to be managed.

then your budgeting will enable you to access the healthcare you want and will only be limited by your finances.

problem solved!

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 22:32:44

banana you're slating a whole system based on your very high expectations of a free (at the point of delivery) service. IME, I've been referred and prescribed. I have had run ins with "this medication is expensive" and there have been some compromises such as; "we'll try X, Y and Z before referral" but overall, very few complaints. I've been at 2 different surgeries and seen about 15 GPs within both of them and while some are hard work, overall I have no complaints (nor do my family) of obviously bad practice. Now, far be it for me to generalise and say the system is ok based on my experience but, as I said, I think you expect a lot.

banana87 Sun 17-Mar-13 22:27:15

Then clearly if budgets are at the forefront of everyone's mind and not patient health or well being, the current system isn't working?

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 19:49:58

a GP obviously has to be concerned about their budget. like the rest of us, they cannot spend money they don't have.

they have lots of competing demands to juggle.

banana87 Sun 17-Mar-13 19:47:58

2rebecca: I never said they did. I said they do in the US but here they are more concerned about budgets than patients so don't prescribe or refer!

quickdowntonson Sun 17-Mar-13 16:22:16

Banana- you obviously have no idea how it works here. GP's do not earn more money from over prescribing or referring. Quite the opposite.

2rebecca Sun 17-Mar-13 12:37:16

I presumed they hadn't got the letter because you were talking about the GP having to make an effort to contact the consultant which implied for some reason this was necessary. You said you had received a letter but that didn't mean the GP's copy had arrived.
I think in general if you have never had a medicine from your GP then it's sensible to make an appointment to discuss the medicine and get it put on a repeat file.
GPs are more likely to get valid complaints about prescribing medicines without having reviewed the patient than having insisted a patient makes an appointment before putting a medication on repeat.

Sirzy Sun 17-Mar-13 00:42:20

n the case mentioned the GP hadn't even had the letter from the hospital saying the med had been started (it isn't a GP's job to chase up hospital letters

Yes they had. 6 weeks before asking for a repeat.

And they didn't ask me to make an appointment with the gp before it would be done. They said no. He was going to leave him with no preventor inhaler and it was only when I did the ringing around to talk to the consultants secretary that it was sorted. Thankfully the consultant and his secretary where fantastic.

banana87 Sat 16-Mar-13 23:29:40

Quick-what evidence do you want? And sorry, but seeing as how GP's are our first point of call in a medical situation, their duty is to save lives. So when they are caring more about budgets than patients, it's a pretty valid concern to have. Really no different to your example of dr's in America over prescribing and over referring....it's all money money money.

silverstaresatnight Sat 16-Mar-13 23:06:40

Quick.. Don't be so arrogant.

digerd Sat 16-Mar-13 21:52:35

I have been prescribed something new as a permanent medication and immediately the chemist attached gave me a repeat prescription form < to go with the others.> I assume mine are not expected to cause me any problems, but looking at the leaflet about side effects, they all have lists of possible ones.

quickdowntonson Sat 16-Mar-13 21:51:10

Banana - What actual evidence do you have for that, apart from hearsay? It's all private medicine in the US so everyone with insurance gets over investigated - no need for clinical judgement there! Massive conflict of interest too - more investigations equals more money.
I think this debate is getting a little silly. Sure everyone makes mistakes, yet no other profession (apart from teachers perhaps) is slagged off so much. How many of you work 12 hour days at such intensity? It's easy to be critical of others.
And yes, I do think it is unprofessional for anyone in any profession to point out colleagues' 'mistakes' to others. Shows a lack of judgement and a lot of arrogance. Silver - yes, you should care about the patient, not scaremonger about how others Dr's can't possibly be as diligent as yourself.

2rebecca Sat 16-Mar-13 20:10:51

It is unusual for a GP to put a medication on repeat when you have only had it once. usually you need an appointment with the GP to check the medication suits you, no side effects, that it's done what it's supposed to etc. Only then does it get put on a repeat prescription. If a hospital doc only just started a medication it's unusual for it to go straight on as a repeat without a doctor somewhere reviewing it. In my surgery the only medications I get on repeat are those on my prescription form list, if it's a new med and not on that list then it's not a repeat.
In the case mentioned the GP hadn't even had the letter from the hospital saying the med had been started (it isn't a GP's job to chase up hospital letters) so it's not surprising it hadn't been added to the repeat med list.
Why is seeing the GP when the med runs out to ask for it to be put on repeat and feed back how helpful the new med is so bad anyway?

silverstaresatnight Sat 16-Mar-13 19:21:05

Thank you for the support , I don't think it is fair or right to rubbish me on a personal level because a Dr is on the defensive. I don't see how that is " unprofessional".. Are they suggesting I must never criticise anything because that is wrong.

We none of us are perfect and the system isn't perfect at the moment for sure.. At the moment, managers are telling drs what to do and all drs care about is getting the patient better ( not freeing up a hospital bed) and the sooner these things are aired and improved the better.

banana87 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:23:32

Also I don't think it's as hard here to become a GP as it is in other countries, I.e. America.

Case and point: friends bil studied in US at medical school, failed his boards and therefore couldn't be a dr. Moved here and is a A&e dr. Not sure if he's consultant (don't think he is), but point is that he shouldn't really be practicing at all, yet others lives are in his hands. Scary stuff.

dikkertjedap Sat 16-Mar-13 11:28:34

Change your doctors - I agree, but no guarantee the next one is any better. Good ones are like finding a needle in a haystack. Especially in more rural areas. I think places like London attract the best doctors, resulting in higher standards in London compared with other parts of the country. At least that is my impression.

The fact that some GPs in this thread get all defensive and in denial makes it so hard to improve the NHS. If people don't admit that there is a problem then there is no hope of the problem being addressed. The fact that one GP mentioned he studied so long is neither here nor there, you can study for seven years and still be a crap doctor. Also, to try to shush a fellow doctor because he was critical is outrageous, shows the 'you rub my back, I rub your back' culture in medical practice which totally undermines all credibility and explains to patients why it is a waste of time to complain as doctors are likely to support their own rather than the patient.

silverstaresatnight Fri 15-Mar-13 23:40:19

yes one is ok the rest not.

nannyof3 Fri 15-Mar-13 23:35:44

Change ur doctors

silverstaresatnight Fri 15-Mar-13 23:23:43

Third example.
baby ds has second set of jabs. Up in the night crying and in morning I see red area around vaccination site about 3 cm diameter or so. I give him calpol,it settled over 24 hrs or so and I remember my other ds had the same and it was the pertussis ... so anyway, I go along to third set of jabs and ,mention this and the GP says " I doubt it was a reaction but if it was why didn:t you bring him in and show us?* What, well most drs visit drs as little as possible anyway and are fairly confident about health issues and a visit to the GP really wasn:t necessary... so he was basically saying I don't believe you ! The health visitor who knew me well looked at him as if he was mad!
So anyway ds was under the paed consultant for basically being very atopic and eczematous and I remembered about the jab... he instantly said if the area of swelling was bigger than a fifty pence piece it was a severe local reaction and he should omit the third jab and have some other preparation for the pre school one! Sorted.
So basically in this instance the GP didn't really have the knowledge and tried to fob me off by disbelieving me...why?

silverstaresatnight Fri 15-Mar-13 22:48:03

Another example. Son develops sore throat and fever. looks like tonsillitis and as an adult off he goes to the GP on his own. I mentioned to him I hoped he wouldn't be given amoxicclin as there was a chance of him having glandular fever. He goes to GP who diagnoses tonsillitis and prescribes amoxicillin. Son says could this be risky if it is GF? GP says why would you think that and son says you know my parents are drs and mentioned it to me. GP oh certainly not GF off you go. Day 2 of amoxicillin out comes horrific coalesced rash he is totally erythematous. Goes back to GP who does GF test which of course is positive... does the GP say sorry silvers son, my bad, does he heck he just says it is not connected.
No connection between GF and florid rash with amoxil? Perhaps he had never heard of it? Or perhaps he was just very arrogant ?
Son[18] was ok about the rash but felt he hadn't been listened to. Or that the GP was being awkward.

silverstaresatnight Fri 15-Mar-13 22:11:23

hang on, don't start telling me off and criticising me and calling me not a doctor!!
I am entitled to my opinion as a parent. I am a hospital dr.. you can't just pretend everything is perfect when its not, you have to be open to criticism . Some hospital drs are rubbish. it happens .

It is definitely true that some GPs patronise parents / mothers minimising symptoms or not believing them. Listen to the people on the thread! The best service I have had is from the OOH GP . I may have been unlucky,
I may have been too trusting being a dr myself but they massively under treated my children.

I would never have believed it before having my own children but as your childs advocate I don't see why you have to convince them something is wrong... it should be their job to find out and investigate. I have been absolutely shocked.
Truly bad lack of awareness of what was going on .... while the GP was planning nothingor maybe a blood test in a week for my daughter [ after me politely requesting a test asap] I just took her in to the hospital and her hb was less than 5. Afterwards when he was more than a little embarrassed after her lengthy hospital stay he said " she was a bit pale ". No shit Sherlock !

Like I said you could be an amazing GP. I could be a rubbish Hospital Dr but I am just as entitled to my opinion and to relate experiences as the next person so stop being so defensive, some GPs either don't know what they are doing or just get used to most illnesses being trivial.

I can forgive ignorance.. we all have that after all but its much harder to forgive arrogance.

banana87 Fri 15-Mar-13 21:19:10

I think as a parent, you need to trust your GP. As I said, I have a couple I trust, however they are rarely available.

I do realize that some NHS GP's do private work and that they don't vary their practice. The private GP we saw said the same thing. I was just making my point as other posters had indicated that private GPs probably prescribe needlessly and I disagree with that.

Re: a&e. in every instance I have gone (its a pead a&e) NHS direct have told me to. So obviously a high fever that isn't coming down is a cause for medical concern or else NHS direct just tell everyone to go to a&e (that's a whole other threadwink)

Sirzy Fri 15-Mar-13 21:15:25

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I don't think anyone is faultless and our gp is fantastic for something's I am just rapidly loosing faith in him when it comes to looking after my son

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