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to thnk she could have pushed my intestines back in

(35 Posts)
maddening Wed 13-Feb-13 15:55:00

Have an umbilical hernia from pregnancy with ds.

It has become strangulated a few times eventually going back in. When it was finally diagnosed the dr pushed it back in - the pain relief was immediate and it took a couple of minutes to do.

So yesterday I was at my parent's house (I am staying over once a week so I can avoid lifting as much as poss and df is at work) it is 40 mins away from my home.

So my hernia started hurting when we were in the village and about to go for lunch at midday so we go home. By the time I got there it was awful - I lay down and could feel the hard lump. Mum tried to get her Dr to see me in the next village but there were no appts. I called my gp and got an emergency appt for 3.30pm . By 1pm it really stepped up a gear - was thinking about a&e but awkward with ds being 2 so mum took me to dr down the road. It was empty of patients - receptionist said no drs were in but the nurse practitioner was in so she would ask her. I obviously looked a state being in a fever and obvious pain.

The nurse practitioner was not with a patient - as the receptionist opened her door I could see she was doing paperwork. Sh refused to even speak to me saying we should go to a&e - which was 40 mins away or I could wait 4hours for an ambulance.

So I could either

Go to hospital with my son which would take 40 mins at least to get there and likely a couple of hours to be seen.

Go home and be seen at 3.30pm

But the nurse could have sorted it right there and then.

I thankfully got it back in before 3.30 but still went to my dr who checked me over. I asked about the timescales and her advice was if I can't get it back in within half an hour I should seek medical assistance - and a&e would treat as a medical emergency as after a certain time you are in danger if gangrene and losing bits of bowel.

So aibu to feel that the nurse practitioner should have helped me being that it had been stuck out for over an hour and it could be another 2 hours before I would likely be seen at a&e - it would have taken her a couple of minutes and no patients were waiting?

coughingbean Wed 13-Feb-13 16:27:42

Is there maybe legal issues with nurses doing stuff like that? Do agree she should have at least had a look.

coughingbean Wed 13-Feb-13 16:28:09

Also hope you are feeling better!

SomethingOnce Wed 13-Feb-13 16:29:46

Nothing to add except, dear God, that sounds awful - you poor thing. Hope you're right as rain ASAP.

maddening Wed 13-Feb-13 16:43:53

Sorry I should have added she cited not knowing my history as reason - but I could have told her the history in a minute - pg with large bump and back to back labour caused umbilical hernia - it has come out more often recently and am waiting for surgery in april - if I had gone to a&e that is all the history they would have had also.

Am uncomfortable at mo as it takes a few days to ease back off but I was really ill then and a quick prod would have sorted it.

To me she is a health professional and was in a position to help me but refused in my mind on a flimsy excuse.

I probably am being legally unreasonable if it would have landed her in trouble by doing it but it seems wrong that a 5min assistance from her when I was right there would be far better than a 2 hour a&e visit 40mins away.

AndFanjoWasHisNameO Wed 13-Feb-13 16:46:53

I know this is frustrating but I wouldn't have reduced it for you either-sorry. Without having written evidence that it was a reducible hernia and knowing location on relation to baby etc it could be far more dangerous for a probably inexperienced practitioner to do it for you. Hope you feel better soon, I accept that it's a massive pain in the arse. Have you been given a tubigrip or truss?

ENormaSnob Wed 13-Feb-13 16:47:56

Perhaps it's out of her remit of care.

Is she isn't confident or competent in what you were asking her to do then she was right not to attempt it imo.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 13-Feb-13 16:51:06

Why are you so sure she was in a position to help you? She might not have done something like that for years, might not be confident doing it, might not be insured to do it.

You have access to the treatment you need through the hospital, it's your choice if you don't want to use it, and it's the nurses choice if she doesn't feel she should do it.

A five minute assistance from her may have been better for you if she had known what she was doing, but clearly there was some reason she couldn't help. I doubt she left you in pain just for the sake of it. You should have gone to the hospital instead if expecting a nurse to do something she has a reason not to do just for your convenience.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 16:52:05

Neophyte clinicians fucking around with hernias is potentially lethal. It's possible to reduce a strangulated hernia (ie one with compromised blood supply to the gut) back into the abdominal cavity without relieving the strangulation, so what you have then is a bit of bowel becoming rapidly dead, but you can't see it to tell.

Did you really have strangulation before or did it just come out and stay out? Different.

Certainly wouldn't expect a nurse to reduce a hernia, quick way to lose your PIN.

If it's not something she has done before and/or she didn't feel comfortable doing it then she was right to refuse. If she had done it incorrectly and caused damage to the bowel it would have been very serious and she could easily have lost her nursing registration as well as being liable if you chose to seek damages from her.

Sorry, but I think YABU. Hope it gets sorted soon.

JakeBullet Wed 13-Feb-13 16:53:17

It's frustrating I agree but as a nurse who didn't know you, didn't know if it was a reductible hernia I wouldn't have done it either. ....not what you need to hear I know but had anything gone wrong it would have been in her head.

MammaTJ Wed 13-Feb-13 16:53:17

I had a strangulated hernia-strangulated as in would not return to where it should be. It was four months after my DS was born.

As we live at the ends of the earth, when I rang NHS direct I was told by the doctor who rang straight back to get to the MIU, where there would be a nurse practitioner able to give me pain relief-gas and air and pethadine, and load me in to the ambulance that would be along shortly.

NOONE messed with it. I had almost immediate emergency surgery. Why are you popping in to get nurses to mess with it? It is potentially life threatening.

Dannilion Wed 13-Feb-13 16:53:52

As a nurse myself, I would be reluctant to treat you too. As much as I would have wanted to, we live in a culture where the vast majority are out to make a quick buck out of human error.

If I were to treat you without knowing any of your history and not make your situation better, you could sue me, I would be struck off and lose my career, house etc.

It doesn't matter whether you could state your history or not, there would be nothing stopping you from changing your story when a 6 figure sum is being waved in your face.

I'm not saying you would, but unfortunately this is the society we live in. The fact of the matter is that nursing has become more about following the correct procedure, than using our own common sense and desire to help people who are suffering.

lunar1 Wed 13-Feb-13 16:54:20

Another nurse here that wouldn't have done it either. For every patient that can give an accurate detailed history there are 2 that think they are telling you the correct details when in fact they have got it wrong.

Also not all nurses would have the experience of this, as a sister i have never come across it in practice, and wouldnt like to have a go with no notes and no back up.

Sorry you had such a long wait to get it sorted though

X post.

Everything Bruxeur said really!

maddening Wed 13-Feb-13 16:54:37

Fair point - I did think nurse practitioners have extra qualifications though and since I am expected to try with no instruction or guidance that it wasn't such an awful ask.

Would it be wise to ask my gp for a written statement about my hernia? Just in case I am out and about again - as I can't stay in till easter abd currently applying for jobs so may be in work soon (would be a job sitting down so ok to do with my hernia)

I have a belly bandit which I now wear all the time and gp is referring me for a truss to help me till the op as the belly bandit is uncomfortable and not ideal (I got it as they were convinced it was just separated tummy muscles for ages even though I had complained of something popping out which I had to push back in )

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 16:56:51

MammaTJ, that isn't what strangulation means. It might have been strangulated as well, but you're describing an irreducible hernia.

maddening Wed 13-Feb-13 17:00:06

I guess iabu then - I wasn't feeling reasonable yesterday haha smile

Mammatj - until yesterday the gp seemed quite blase about it - she did say it could be life threatening if I couldn't get it in and could pop back to gp if it was stuck out again.

The gp yesterday (different lady) seemed quite shocked it had got to that point yesterday and said going forward if not in in 30 mins to either see them or go to a&e.

It comes out and goes back in a lot but so far has eventually gone back in either by itself or with assistance.

Lockedout434 Thu 14-Feb-13 06:23:56

Hi I had exactly the same as yourself except I went into a&e a marvellous doctor popped it back in. ( It was like a miracle) Agony to ecstasy in second.
This happened about 3 times. Always in a&e i was in absolute agony so your wait must have been awful. But he said on the last go to ask to see the surgeon next time rather than getting it popped back. I did and and it was sorted that day brilliant. I was out of hospital in 2 days and felt marvellous. I still look on that doctor as a godlike figure he was a genius and lovely 6ft, handsome, manly, striding round with white coat billowing behind him and his amazing, straight out of a mills and boon. Not at all like the normal a&e spod. It could have been the morphine though, sigh

sashh Thu 14-Feb-13 06:30:49

Hang on

Your DR said it would be treated as an emergency at A and E but you think you would wait hours?

The nurse had no idea who you were, how often this has happened and how long it had been strangulated.

She could have popped it back, and your bowel could already be damaged but you would be in no pain and go home.

It was an emergency and you were told to go to A and E.

Lockedout434 Thu 14-Feb-13 07:11:51

Next time go to A&E because its instant pain relief when it goes back in doesn't mean it's not serious.
Good luck

I'm sorry you've been in so much pain and hope this gets sorted for you soon.

On a lighter note: best thread title of the week! smile

maddening Thu 14-Feb-13 07:17:13

Sash - the dr after it happened on Tuesday said it would be treated as an emergency - till then I wasn't aware of that

maddening Thu 14-Feb-13 07:32:16

Locked out - thank you so much for your post - glad to hear that hernia surgeons are handsome grin

How was recovery from the sugery? Mine is booked in mid april - only met the registrar who was not as dishy as your chap sad

Seachelle Thu 14-Feb-13 12:55:37

Oh crumbs don't mess about with this. I think the nurse was absolutely right. My bowel kept getting trapped for then freeing itself for several months. When it eventually strangulated it is a whole new level of pain and you will be in no doubt that it is an emergency situation.

How long do you have to wait for your operation?

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