ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
I let our son nap during the day... AIBU?(68 Posts)
My darling wife is angry with me... She does not appreciate my allowing our 3 year old son to nap or sleep as he wishes during the day. He regularly wakes during the night and has a habit of crawling into bed with us. My partner finds these disturbances intolerable and blames my allowing DC to nap during the day.
Recently I was upset to find DW cajoling our son into staying awake... DC does not take kindly to having his kip disturbed and the situation escalated into something uncomfortable rapidly. I insisted that his napping during the day has nothing to do with his not sleeping at night and she accused me of not caring about her welfare and making her out to be the bad guy... I honestly believe that forcing him to stay awake against his will during the day is not the way sort out his night sleeping issues. Watching her doing it makes me uncomfortable.
Am I being unreasonable to allow our son to sleep as he pleases? Is there a link between napping during the day and not sleeping through the night? I don't want DW to feel like I'm not on her side here. I understand that she needs to be able to get a proper nights rest. My standard response to our sons incursions into our bed is to take him back to his own and stay with him until he falls asleep again. I am writing this now having just seen him off to sleep again. I don't believe cajoling him into staying awake during the day is the answer, besides which it doesn't work and DC inevitably finds someplace to catch 40 winks whilst DW is looking the other way...
Your welcome - hope it helps
If she's tense and didn't get home until 11pm she must have a very stressful job. Does she ever get any time alone? Fwiw i don't think she sounds horrible or selfish. She sounds at the end of her tether for reasons we won't know until you talk. Do you ever get any time alone together? Ime it can make a huge difference and sort of reboot your relationship.
I have been in your shoes a little bit when I was a sahp and DP worked long hours. He used to travel with work and get so tired (although he never lost it with the kids) but he really enjoys his job which helps. We decided that if he had a lot of travel then some nights he would stay away at a hotel (work paid) because struggling home and unsettling everyone and falling asleep on the sofa was not helping him or us.
You sound like you're doing all the right things and have good intentions. I'm a bottler and dont talk about my problems. It's not healthy and has taken me to snappy irrational states at times. Keep talking and listening. Don't suggest solutions, offer a sounding board and support.
Some kids need them, some don't.
I'm of the opinion that sleep begets sleep though. No one sleeps well when they're overtired.
OP, you sound like a complete saint. And I do think that there is something else going on with your DW, and you clearly love her very much so yes, it's worth pursuing. You need to tread very carefully though, because her 'reality' is probably very different from what you are seeing, and the truth will lie somewhere in the middle. Tackling my DH about his drinking took me a long, long time and a lot of tiptoeing, but we can talk much more openly about his stressors and how to deal with them as a result. I wish you every success with this, because despite the issues you have (and they ARE relationships issues) you sound like you have a solid marriage to build on.
FWIW, I have 1 DD who napped until 4.5 (she started school a term late, just short of 5) and one who dropped naps before she turned two. Both slept well, except when they were teething, ill etc. but I think a lot of that is luck. YY to putting a structure to the naps so that they don't happen too late - after lunch worked well for DD1, you'll need to experiment to see what works for your DS.
Hang in there.
This sounds so much more like a relationship problem rather than 'just' a sleep problem, non?
FWIW, DSs2 and 3 slept every day until well after their 3rd birthdays, DSs1 and 4 stopped after their 2nd birthday and could not be 'made' to continue with daytime naps.
So, I think daytime sleep is very much individual to every child.
Having said that, I do think it is wrong to try and keep an obviously tired child awake.
The nighttime sleep problem is much more likely to do with routine setting, calm winding down period etc, or rather lack thereof, and you've had lots of v good advice on that here.
I hope you can manage to have a productive and calm conversation with your DW tomorrow. If she is not prepared to engage in a constructive conversation about her behaviour and how it is affecting your DS and you, I think you need to consider your position in this relationship.
Your wife sounds completely spoilt!
She screams at ds = lovely favourite dinner and massage for dw!
If this was the other way round I could imagine mumsnet faces. If she has a problem she needs to talk to you and you to her. Not pander to her bullying behaviour.
No, she is not a horse! I did massage professionally for a couple of years to fund myself through uni. I still have a portable table etc... Start off lightly, getting progressively firmer. She has a bunch of knotty tense muscle issues around her neck, shoulders, lower back and er.. bum. Some of it's so bad I have to use an elbow or two. I should probably rub her down more often, but finding the time can be an issue. She loves it, and I love doing it for her.
Rubbed her down thoroughly is she a horse?
Hi guys, Thanks again for all the advice/support. Nothing really happened last night. DW got home around 11pm looking totally shattered and definitely not in a condition to be interrogated about family stuff. So I warmed her dinner through, rubbed her down thoroughly & ran her a bath before we both went to bed. I slept in the boys room to make sure there was no possibility of her being disturbed.
This morning DS2 asked me "Is mummy okay?" which put a lump in my throat. I've sent DS1/2 & DW off to spend a day with DW's mum, whilst I get on with some of the odd jobs around the house. I guess we'll talk about things tomorrow. Sunday is family day in our household.
Thanks to all for advice/support and a special thanks to Celine McBean and Mortified Adams.
Oh yes! I found an activity monitor thinggy-me-bob that I used to use whilst I was getting rid of some excess weight. I'm going to modify it so that I can use it to monitor activity/sleep patterns for DS.
DS? Dw sounds shattered! Flipping autocorrect!
DS sounds utterly shattered but I agree, shouting at a small child is not on. The sleep/nap diary sounds a good idea, as does a chat about how you are all feeling. You may be right and there may be another issue but equally working long hours and not sleeping is enough of an issue for anyone.
Regarding the sleep problems, I would consider the following:
1. Is this a problem for the child? Many reported sleep issues are, apparently, only an issue for the parent and the child's behaviour may well be perfectly normal in another family. Who really has the problem? If it's not the child then the adult needs to find some coping strategies.
2. What's bedtime like? If a daytime nap isn't affecting bedtime then the night waking is unlikely to be connected.
3. What else is going on? New siblings, new nursery, moving etc etc can all unsettle a child and lead to night waking or wanting to sleep with a parent. This is fairly normal and relates to how secure the child feels.
4. Is the napping a daily occurrence or only when he's ill? If it is sporadic and he's sleeping after 1pm then it may well cause problems because the child feels unsettled.
5. What coping strategies could you use?
Bedsharing - There's a massive difference between electing to bedshare and not which can feel like an invasion. Bedsharing can help reassure unsettled children but equally an already unsettled child being rejected is not going to help. The two parents need to decide what is acceptable and how it will be managed. You may all decide on a period of bedsharing or not.
DW may decide to sleep elsewhere for a bit, either to facilitate bedsharing or just to be removed from what is a source of anxiety for her.
Introduce napping or quiet time at a specific time to give rest. Between 2-3years old most (but not all) children drop their nap. This does not always happen gradually and most children still need some rest time even if it's not sleeping. Watching a DVD or something on CBeebies or reading a book together can all be restful without sleeping.
Have a cut off, say 1pm after which time unless he is ill you will keep him awake until bedtime.
Avoid car journeys or buggy rides after the cut off because they will make children sleep.
Have an agreed plan for evenings when he has napped. If you know it will mean a late bedtime then plan for that.
Move bath time to the nap "danger time". It will help keep him awake but won't add extra work to your day.
Keep him on his feet if he looks tired and you don't want him to nap. Go out for a walk, a kick about or some other activity.
why is his mum screaming in his face that is not on I hope you got something sorted as there is no need to be so angry and shout at a little child like that because she is annoyed she cant get a sleep,
Hope everything went OK last night OP.
I agree that if you were a woman posting about your DH's behaviour some of the replies may be a bit different. It's not OK for anyone to 'scream blue murder' at their child.
Lack of sleep is a nightmare though and whilst I am not making excuses, it sounds like your wife is out of the house each day for a very long day and is probably exhausted and feels her sleep is important in order to cope. Perhaps if you think your son needs a sleep in the day an you are the primary carer, so really this is your decision, you can find a way round the night wakings by maybe sleeping in the room with your DS again until he sleeps better?
FWIW, I just don't bother trying to manipulate DD's naps. If I let her nap in the day she might go to bed 30 mins or an hour later (2-3 hour nap) but she sleeps just the same. If I try and keep her awake so she doesn't nap or wake her up before she wakes up by herself, all hell breaks loose and she is awfully grumpy all afternoon and it doesn't really help with bedtime anyway as she is then over tired.
Keep your cool when you talk. Discussing her shouting at the kids while shouting at each other will be counter productive.
I find words sink in better if said straightly and calmly. Write some things down if needs be so you make sure you discuss everything that is bothering you.
Actually no... I am not going to say something stupid. I am going to figure out what is going on with her that is making her so bloody cranky. She's been cranky for a few months now and I get the feeling she's keeping something from me... I don't know what it is but i'm going to find out. This shit has gone on too long. I want my Mrs back, not this angry child bullying horror who seems completely oblivious to her own snoring but is unable to cope with a sleepless child. Something is UP and I am going to get to the bottom of it.
Sleeping through or.not she should NT be screaming blue.murder at him.
If this thread were reversed and you were the mum and the dad was doing this peole would be telling yo she was an aggressive bully and you need to have a Serious Talk.
Some would even say she may be depressed or something is going on outside the home for her to be acting rhis way in the home.
Some.would say LTB.
We had a massive row about this today. At least it was ostensibly about the sleep thing. She screamed bloody murder at DS when he dared tumble into our bed last night. At the time I dealt with it in the standard way. Took him back to his bed and stayed with him until he fell asleep. This took longer than normal because DS was crying over being shouted at. In the morning I found myself still in their room. DS2 had crawled into bed with DS1 and was clinging to him like a teddy bear.
Anyhow, I don't know if it was the lack of sleep or something else but I decided to talk to DW over breakfast about what happened that night. She seemed dismissive. I got angry, she got angrier. Lots of stuff come out. She'll be back around 9pm or maybe 10. I'm dreading it. Need to find someway of letting her know I'm on her side in this, so I'm making her favourite dinner followed by her favourite dessert and then I'll probably say something stupid like "I don't like it when you bully our children" and then all hell will break loose.
Wish me luck.
Our ds is a poor sleeper and even more so when he is overtired.
I find it difficult to get him to sleep during the day unless I'm out and he is in his pram. He is just so nosey and would rather see what's going on than sleep!
I did read and have heard that the better they sleep during nap times the better they are at night.
Our ds ends up in our bed most nights recently, everytime he wakes he seems to be cold...despite the layers and covers. Could there be something like being cd disturbing him? I'm
naively hoping he will sleep better in his own bed when the weather gets a bit warmer.
If your wife is a sensitive sleeper, then buy her some of these. I too am a sensitive sleeper and they work a treat.
My DD only gave up her nap a few months before she started school at age 4. I was actually worried that she wouldn't manage without when she started school although she was OK. My DS is just coming up to 3 and he still has around 90 mins nap each day and will go for 2 hours if left. Their bedtime is generally around 7.45pm so not very late. I was happy for this to happen as it does mean a break for me in the day which I would have gone crazy without, especially in winter where they are indoors so much. They usually sleep through the night though so I think they just need a bit more sleep than average.
I certainly think that a 30-90 min nap before 3pm is quite a sensible pattern for a 3 year old. Having said that the fact that your DS's sleep is not great at night is more of an issue I guess. If he is still disturbed at night even when he hasn't napped then the nap is making no difference and I'd just carry on with it. If he does sleep better at night with no nap then I guess your DW may have a point. You could perhaps try some quiet time for him where he goes to his room with books or a puzzle and rests. But be warned my DD used to do that and then would be found fast asleep on the bed
I also agree with the point about testing out different lengths of naps. I've heard 45 mins is supposed to be good to refresh them without affecting nighttime sleep but my two have always needed more...
MY dd slept in the afternoon till she was 4 the girl could sleep on a knives edge some kids need a nap , your W is being U some kids don't sleep well and id rather a child naps during the day because a wound up over tired child is a nightmare
From your original post it appears that you are at home during the day so I'm guessing you're a SAHD and your wife goes out to work?
If that is the case then she is being completely reasonable, If she's out working while you do childcare then she has every right to expect to get a full nights sleep before work the next day. If you choose to let the child sleep during the day then you need to take whatever measures you need to in order to ensure that when the inevitible waking during the night occurs that your DW is not disturbed so she can wake in the morning ready for work. That's the deal when you shoose to be a stay at home parent - one earns the money the other sorts the kids and runs the house. I too find kids crawling into my bed maddening, they stay there for approx 0.00000001 nanoseconds before being firmly sent back to their own room. My bed is my bed!
For me the issue is whether she is "cajoling" or "forcing" him to stay awake - the former is fine, the latter not so much. I have one son who wasn't napping at 3, but dreadful at sleeping overnight. His twin brother could go well over 2 hours during the day till quite recently (3.8 now) and sleep all night too - keeping him up meant him sobbing through dinner and screaming by bedtime.
It also sounds from your second post that he doesn't sleep every day? So it isn't a habit, it is a need and is likely going to decrease over the next few months (though that is only from my experience - you will have noticed from the responses that all children are different).
I am an insomniac and had two DDs 16 months apart who shared a room.I would go ballistic if one woke, in case they woke the other, and no way was anyone getting into my bed. So I would do the usual drinks of water, turn the landing light on/off, close/open the bedroom door or whatever they did to call me upstairs. But after a bit I would hit the roof. Anyway they then slept well and always have. There's no need for DCs to get up and get into DP's bed imv.
My DS1 had a nap every day until nursery he started there at around 3 or 4, he went mornings to begin with and had a nap afterwards. He stopped naps when he started school.
DS2 was a horrific sleeper, I think he still had a small nap during the day.
You sound like a saint compared to my ex !
I can understand your DW, I think, even though she is not getting up, perhaps she could get some ear plugs? Maybe cut the nap back a bit but your DC sound like my DS2, he just liked to wake frequently during the night.
He stopped when he started school. Thankfully.
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