to wonder how 'working age' people are supposed to keep finding more and more extra money?

(100 Posts)
littlemisssarcastic Sun 27-Jan-13 22:16:25

Changes to council tax benefit take effect on April 1st 2013.

I'm convinced there are many people who receive council tax benefit, who are not aware of all of the changes coming in.

My eyes have been opened since I checked my local council's website.

I understand different councils are going to tackle this in different ways.

My council have decided amongst other things that;

Working age claimants will have to pay a minimum of 20% of their council tax, regardless of their income.
Just £10 will be disregarded from income from child maintenance rather than the current 100%.
Claims will be backdated for one month only from the date your council tax bill is issued
No Second Adult Rebate
There will be an increase in the non dependent deductions

They have also decided that "You are not a "pensioner" if you have a partner that gets Income Support, Employment and Support allowance or income-based Jobseekers Allowance."
Other than that, pensioners are exempt from any change to the amount of benefit they receive, ie: pensioners will continue to get 100% of their council tax paid if it would have been paid in full under 'council tax benefit' rules IYSWIM.

That is my councils changes.

MoodyDidIt Mon 28-Jan-13 19:20:14

i feel impotent though aufanie...like my one vote won't matter. but having said that - i WILL be voting next time and i WILL be voting these cunts out

but sadly i believe that whoever gets voted in will still fuck over the poor

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 19:29:13

"but sadly i believe that whoever gets voted in will still fuck over the poor"

Possibly, but this lot are fucking over the poor much more than the last lot, and much quicker. They are systematically destroying the welfare state for a start.

"i feel impotent though" I know what you mean! But thinking of this quote cheers me up sometimes:

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has" (Margaret Mead).

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 19:31:31

"Sadly i feel similar cuts would have to happen whoever was in power"

Salbertina that's a myth. Actually many of these "cuts" won't even save much money if any. Many of them will actually cost society money if you take into account the increased social costs of cuts.

The driving force behind them is ideological, not money saving.

There is plenty of choice in which cuts, how fast and how many.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 19:37:56

YANBU, i'm really scared about how to pay all my bills now.

HappyMummyOfOne Mon 28-Jan-13 19:43:26

Everybody should contribute, millions have to pay it in full so why should others be exempt? It pays for services that everybody uses so is an important bill.

Its another step towards ensuring work pays rather than having people actually having a higher household income than somebody who works.

Whoever is in charge would have had to make cuts, we cant keep handing money over when there is little left to give out.

Mandy2003, its likely they will base SE as earning min wage per hour for those that make little money in being SE. I recall reading something re WTC changes to this effect but that may have changed with UC coming in. Lots went SE so as to avoid signing on and to get WTC so they are getting strict.

aufaniae Mon 28-Jan-13 19:47:47

Yes, everyone should contribute over the course of their lifetime (assuming they are able).

But making people pay from out-of-work benefits is simply another benefits cut.

Surely you can see that doesn't make sense?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 19:56:22

It reminds me of the poll tax all over again. sad

Harriet35 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:59:24

People should be more pissed off at their local council for charging so much in return for so little.

HappyMummyOfOne Mon 28-Jan-13 20:17:19

Harriet, i actually think its great value for money. It funds education, police, fire, social services, refuge etc. Education alone to do privately costs thousands.

If you add up everything provided, its worth the full amount yet people are moaning that they may have to make a small contribution. Given that most wont be working if getting free council tax at present, its actually the state the state that will effectively be paying the contribution anyway.

I dont recall much re poll tax but from reading it seemed a much fairer system. The value of a house is a daft measure of council tax, a set amount per adult is much fairer and more in proportion with services etc used.

holidaysarenice Mon 28-Jan-13 21:25:20

Does anyone know what will happen to a student house? For example three students all in full time education are exempt currently?

Or a dp and a student who wud currently get a student exempt?

holidaysarenice Mon 28-Jan-13 21:32:23

Does anyone know what will happen to a student house? For example three students all in full time education are exempt currently?

Or a dp and a student who wud currently get a student exempt?

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 21:47:01

It all depends on your individual council holidaysarenice.

If you look up your council's website, you may find the information you are looking for.

HappyMummyOfOne It's not that people begrudge paying for the sake of it, but there are a number of people who simply cannot afford to pay in their circumstances. As I explained earlier, this will leave some people without enough money to feed themselves.

Poll tax was introduced in 1988 in Scotland. It was deemed to be a fairer way to fund councils, because everyone, regardless of their circs had to pay some or all of it, a lot a bit like this new council tax support. 38 million people were to pay poll tax as opposed to 14 million who had previously been paying rates.
Admin costs shot up as they will do this time too and there was widespread non payment. The consequences for non payment were fines, court action etc.
By the beginning of 1990, there were widespread riots, shops and businesses were trashed, fires were started, the streets were awash with angry people from all walks of life, families, pensioners, mothers with pushchairs.
It went on for at least 4 or 5 hours.
The prime minister stood down. The new prime minister abandoned the poll tax in 1990.

Someone who was there at the time said ' The government miscalculated because they thought poor people didn't have a voice.'

This government are repeating the same mistakes. sad

JakeBullet Mon 28-Jan-13 22:00:00

There will be widespread non payment this time too....if it comes to a straight choice between paying a council tax contribution and feeding your family then most people will raise two fingers to the council. The sums are likely to be too small to make it cost effective to pursue recovery....and council services will suffer.

Darkesteyes Mon 28-Jan-13 22:10:37
CaptainNancy Mon 28-Jan-13 22:25:02

I'm not sure why people think child maintenance shouldn't count as income- people not in receipt of maintenance still have to fund their children from their income, which is taxed, NI'd etc, seems like an odd expectation. (I do realise that plenty of people receive paltry sums in maintenance, but actually some people's salary is pretty meagre!).

lucille 190pcm? shock is this London? That's a stonking bill (or is your home enormous?)

Harriet were you even alive in the 70s? hmm Have you ever been anywhere near a local council? Local government has changed radically over the last 5 years, even more so if you look at the last 15 years. Most council workers are fairly low-paid women, many part-time, and their pensions are far from gold-plated. There have also been pension reforms in the last 12 months, and people in LGPSs are paying in more, receiving less- do you want them to receive no pensions? Increase the burden on the state even further? hmm

thekidsrule Mon 28-Jan-13 22:32:20

the money is spent on the child,well mine is anyway

what if this is taken into account,worked out on that and your ex stops paying

not only will you have to fight the ex for the maintenance back but also make a new claim etc

some of us have to chase or prey the maintanance arrives,sometimes it does not

its taken me 5 yrs to get a payment and only 6months back pay,paid back at £5 a week on top of the normal

not always as easy as people imagine

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 22:34:11

Didn't child maintenance used to count in the calculation of other benefits? And what happened there? I seem to remember it didn't turn out very well IIRC.

Same thing tbh, again the powers that be should have learnt from past mistakes but are not learning and are simply repeating past mistakes again, almost exactly the same mistakes, just different labels.

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 22:37:53

I'm interested to know how the child maintenance being included in the calculations for council tax support will work tbh.

Will parents have to declare every time they receive a payment of child maintenance? Will parents have to make a declaration at intervals which determines how much council tax they pay in future payments? Or will the council make a prediction of how much child maintenance a parent will receive based on past records?

thekidsrule Mon 28-Jan-13 22:38:34

yes it did,you got a disregard (think it was £10 or 15 a week) i dint get it then so not totally sure

last few years they dont count it, as maintenance can be very patchy so cant really be relied on in calculations

thekidsrule Mon 28-Jan-13 22:41:54

thats what im wondering

i was under the impression it was supposed to be soley for the child,not to pay council tax but hey ho

the same as somebody said on another thread that the disabled could spend their dla on the bedroom tax,but some mentioned that is not what dla is meant for

AudrinaAdare Mon 28-Jan-13 22:42:17

shock at Brentwood. I'm near there and there are probably only a handful of people under twenty five at all and they'll be at University and coming home to a six-bed house not liable for bedroom tax.

I doubt that anyone there voted anything but Tory given the way the place looked before the election, so I shouldn't be surprised.

But it's still bloody awful. I'd love for someone to legally challenge this angry

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 22:43:56

IIRC, parents benefits were altered by how much child maintenance they were predicted to receive, then the NRP refused to pay, or paid late or paid a reduced amount and the PWC was plunged into hardship overnight, only no one wanted to help.
Benefits agency couldn't help because the calculations had been done and they couldn't change them because that's what the law said and CSA couldn't help because they couldn't pay the PWC money they hadn't yet received.

To think it wont be long before parents will also have to pay to make use of the new CSA (CMEC I think it's called) where they haven't had to pay before, it's just one thing after another imo.

ihearsounds Mon 28-Jan-13 22:59:00

Many people have no idea of what is coming.

Here, we are loosing student discount and single person discount. People who are genuinely claiming benefits will also have to find extra money for council tax, never mind the rent increases that are being discussed, and no not the spare room thing.. But even the spare room thing, people don't know this includes people who pay full rent.

Ok I hear you say, why does that person have a spare room. If only life was that simple to say the spare room is actually a spare room. Foster carers in between carers, carers bedrooms for people with sn, parents who have 50/50 residency, parents who keep the room of the student who is away during term time.. To mention but a few scenarios.

With regards to child maintenance, you know the amount that csa say you are going to get, well it is based on that amount. Now imagine you are the person who gets nothing because the ex plays the system. If you aren't going through csa (why should you because they are at times shite) you have to produce regular declarations and bank statements, just in the same way as working and having to provide wage slips. Ahh, but cash payments I hear you say, well no because this is seen as non payment and referred to csa. Without making a csa claim, the rp faces financial penalty. For some of you, you may remember similar happening years ago when trying to get is and having to claim csa. The main reason why maintenance was disregarded as income was because of the nrp who played the system to not pay a penny, and it was cheaper in the long run to disregard than to constantly have to reevaluate various claims the rp as making.

CaptainNancy Mon 28-Jan-13 23:02:01

I would have thought the calculation would be based on maintenance received over past 12 months, then reviewed on an annual basis- isn't that how WTC works?
If it's based on past income, at least it's money you've already received...

littlemisssarcastic Mon 28-Jan-13 23:04:59

ihearsounds It sounds like a lose/lose situation for NRP's. sad

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