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AIBU to loathe people who seem to think that their personal tax contribution pays for absolutely everything and everyone

(74 Posts)
sockmuppet Mon 07-Jan-13 18:59:16

Sorry thread about a thread blush the care home one!

When I hear people getting angry because their taxes are paying for parts of the social system they don't agree with would I be unreasonable to ask them in more detail how much they actually pay in tax. Then argue that they in all likelihood don't actually cover their own social benefits of education and medical care etc?

Why do people think they personally pay for the entire public workforce and feel the need to tell individuals that "I pay your wages mate" or "I don't want to pay for someone else's sick aunt" You know the type I mean.

tinkertitonk Tue 08-Jan-13 21:36:32

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

Agreed totally.

But I get to decide what your needs are. Not you.

Hadagoodyear Tue 08-Jan-13 20:56:57

I've just name changed for obvious reasons, but last year DH sold a business he set up and we paid just under £4 million in tax. We didn't choose to minimise our Ta able position because we don't feel we needed as much money as we had acquired. The staff who worked with him were all very well paid and have always been well-treated. We have also always paid full uk income tax, even though we could have avoided this perfectly legally by claiming to be Non-Domiciled.

Yes, I have paid for a lot & I'm damn proud to be able to have been able to do so. I don't work full time at the moment but do a lot of voluntary work for UK based charities. We also give substantial amounts to Oxfam & other international charities.

No I don't own an island. grin

Not quite sure why I posted this other than to say some people really do pay for a lot (sheepish).

sockmuppet Tue 08-Jan-13 20:42:03

ElphabaTheGreen

Loved your post smile

I also work for the NHS and, on a nigh-on daily basis, you'll get a pained looking wife turning wet eyes at you stating what (she thinks) is the deal breaker when you say her husband with a minor, non-life-threatening complaint can't have a private room: 'But he paid National Insurance ALL HIS LIFE!'

He's 90. He hasn't paid national insurance since he retired in the 70s. He had five kids all born post-WWII (and, therefore, courtesy of the NHS). You, my dear, have never worked. His NI contributions would have been proportional to his salary - the final one of which would have been several thousands of pounds lower than my first salary when I was newly qualified. Now, how exactly do you calculate that he has paid for that £1000 per day bed?

That's what I'd like to say, anyway. Instead I just look sympathetic and apologetic and try and make her think I agree with her.

sockmuppet Tue 08-Jan-13 19:17:41

worldgonecrazy
"YABU - though technically what they should say is "my taxes contribute towards your wages".

That's my point.....
You can't be specific about what your taxes pay for yourself and not actually think that it's probable that your taxes are unlikely to cover your NHS/kids education bill unless you earn very well.

sockmuppet Tue 08-Jan-13 19:05:07

which thread 5madthings

Smellslikecatspee Tue 08-Jan-13 14:21:10

I used to get this so often when I was nursing.

Half the time I'd ask for a raise, the rest I'd point out that I also paid tax.

Usually the ones who siad it were the ones trying to screw the system anyway

ShamyFarrahCooper Tue 08-Jan-13 14:03:12

Ooh that survey was interesting, however I live in Scotland so I imagine it doesn't take our free prescrpitions into the equation <runs away now it's been mentioned>

Dawndonna Tue 08-Jan-13 13:55:16

I can understand why people don't want to pay more tax to pay for care homes, but I don't see it as any different to not wanting to pay more tax to fund other people having children

Listen here, Marie Stopes, every fecking thread it's benefits and children. You do not get to decide, thank goodness, who does and doesn't get to have children. Ffs, it's not a sodding eugenics forum.

Oh, and actually Thatcher introduced tax on benefits, so those on benefits do pay tax of some description, as well as the fuel duty and VAT that you do.

Absy Tue 08-Jan-13 13:37:28

Technically I do contribute more than I get out.

And I'm an immigrant.

If the Daily Mail tried to figure that one out their heads would explode.

dreamingofsun Tue 08-Jan-13 13:29:25

agreed cloud - people on decent wages fund their own children (as it should be) so why should carehomes being any different.

sieglinde Tue 08-Jan-13 13:23:15

It's the 'insurance' part - but agree that tax credits is a stupid term too. Why I hate NI as a term - it's TAX, ffs. Call it tax. It doesn't insure you for doodlysquat.

CloudsAndTrees Tue 08-Jan-13 13:16:16

The term national insurance is more accurate than tax credits, although neither of them make much sense.

I can understand why people don't want to pay more tax to pay for care homes, but I don't see it as any different to not wanting to pay more tax to fund other people having children.

atthewelles Tue 08-Jan-13 13:12:58

I can't stand the 'I pay your wages' comment. Every body's wages are paid by members of the public in some form or other. Public service workers don't go around saying to parents who annoy them 'I pay your child benefit'. It's such a stupid comment.

Mia4 Tue 08-Jan-13 13:07:47

YANBU My close friend works for a part (soon to be no longer part of) the HPA, people always say that to her to which she corrects 'we make money, we fund the HPA, we get enough back to cover ourselves so we pay our own wages AND for other parts of the NHS.' I especially love when she's told their taxes do too which she replies: 'really? so do mine, they also go into the same pot your free dental, healthcare and child benefit come from'.

Tends to shut them up.

dreamingofsun Tue 08-Jan-13 12:55:31

i think its quite reasonable to want to be interested in what your tax covers, and also for it to be used efficiently and effectively. i can understand why people don't want to pay more tax to enable a rich OAP to have free carehome facilities.

it also riles me when my IL's just seem to want the state to provide more and more and can't seem to equate this to people paying tax, or maybe just don't care where the money is coming from.

sorry don't have time to become involved in politics as too busy earning a living and paying tax!!

5madthings Tue 08-Jan-13 12:08:07

Doesn't matter how much someone pays in tax, you still can't judge someone and their circumstances. If the money you pay and what its spent on bothers you either vote for a party that will spend it how you want it spent it get involved in politics yourself to do something about it.

I don't begrudge taxes being spent on those that need it, instead I am grateful I don't need that support and also thankful its there just in case as we never know what's round the corner.

sieglinde Tue 08-Jan-13 12:05:21

YANBU. I blame the term 'national insurance', which encourages people to see the welfare state as some kind of bank account.

You can also find them whining about having paid taxes for years and therefore being entitled to this or that benefit. No, you are NOT entitled to it because you've paid tax - it isn't YOURS. You are entitled to it because you need it.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

YABU - though technically what they should say is "my taxes contribute towards your wages".

BunFagFreddie Tue 08-Jan-13 11:59:47

What about all the stealth taxes, fuel duty and VAT that everyone pays. Most people don't even notice how much they are getting taxed.

If anything, OP should also be outraged that these other taxes are not going to health care, education and where it really matters. In fact, where exactly is the money going? To Europe? To pay interest on our national debt? To bomb people in the Middle East?

YANBU.

I have once used this phrase, in the context of pointing out my immigrant DH does actually pay some of the tax that goes to all the things taxes in this country pay for. But I probably shouldn't do that!

I have a family member who used to go on about how his taxes kept lazy people in food and clothes while he worked his fingers to the bone, etc. etc. Now one of his sons has been in and out of work for nearly two years and he insists son is 'building up a business'. He refuses to acknowledge, including to his son, when that son is on JSA. grin

PessaryPam Tue 08-Jan-13 11:45:43

My results on that survey. So I expect some respect round these here parts wink

On average, people with household incomes similar to yours have an annual balance of... £-27,221

Your household is in the tenth decile, where one has the least disposable income and ten has the most. Households from the 7th decile and above, on average, pay more in tax than they receive in benefits and services.

I am eternally grateful for the help the state has given me, my education, my twins care when they were born prem, the library, the swimming pool - loads of stuff that we should thank our lucky stars for. As for benefits, well within any system there are those who try and beat it - at every level - but that doesn't mean it is abused by everyone.

One thing got me at the w/e - in the paper there was an accountant who was moaning about losing some of his child benefit as his salary is over the £50k limit. He was saying that he was going to use his accountancy skills to try and find a way round it by paying more into his pension. The amount he stands to be down by was just under £1k - a fair amount yes, but on his salary not a massive one - yet he was trying to find a way to keep it. Tax evasion, sorry avoidance, of a sort I felt!

5madthings Tue 08-Jan-13 11:31:27

Yanbu at all, I have just pointed out similar to someone von another thread who was moaning.

yellowsheep Tue 08-Jan-13 11:25:56

My niece had surgery and treatment which cost nearly 200,000. My son also had complicated surgery I am forever gratefull that we live in a county where we don't have to pay at use all family are tax payers. we pay what we owe and are thankfull that others do the same

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