Mumsnet Talk

I would get upset, but it would ALSO just be your opinion and you would be welcome to it.

My sister has even married a black man and my father has NEVER in my earshot made one negative comment. Because I would go. And he knows it.

merlot and clearly you are the intolerant one for not letting your father spew hate. I guess your BIL is also an intolerant bastard for not wanting to listen to racist bullshit. <sigh>

BTW if your dad came to my house and I called him a stupid fucking cunt. You wouldn't get upset? You'd say ah well, it's only her opinion and she's welcome to it?

bytheway1 that's correct! The more people that do this the better the planet.

Or should my children be raised listening to conversations about 'dirty faggots/queers' 'robbing bastard immigrants' and 'smelly pakis'?
How their lives will be ruined by 'turban-wearing terrorists' (I particularly like this one as it's factually incorrect and racist!)?

People with those opinions don't deserve access to my children.

"we have a no bigoted opinions policy in our family"

just a lack of tolerance of others' viewpoints, and a willingness to use access to your children to blackmail your own father into keeping quiet.

"Think as I do, or keep quiet about it"

I do believe if you feel strongly enough you can make these old bigots either shut-up or reconsider their opinions.

My father is as described, racist, homophobic - think Nick Griffin's eccentric uncle.

Once I got to about 22 I just wouldn't listen. I would walk out the door. In the middle of a meal once. Then when I had children it became a bargaining chip. You EVER discuss those evil, pathetic views you will never see your grandchildren. It worked. My courage gave my 2 younger siblings courage and we have a no bigoted opinions policy in our family

My sister has even married a black man and my father has NEVER in my earshot made one negative comment. Because I would go. And he knows it.

Tell him you don't want to listen to that sort of talk, and leave.

I think it is sad that he feels he has to hide his opinions, that people in this country are becoming so "homogenised" that we have one view allowed and one view only - everyone who holds a controversial view must be pilloried and criminalised and made to feel or say sorry for holding an opinion which is not supportive to whichever oppressed minority is in vogue at the moment.

My grandad holds some strong views on employment for women for instance - (part time work has led to the devaluation of some roles and the low pay and poor working conditions experienced by many in this country, acceptance of these roles initially for convenience, increasingly out of need has led to multinational companies using them more and more to avoid paying into the pension/tax/NI pot etc etc.... ).

His arguments get lost in the general outrage of "you are wrong/sexist/misogynistic/blah..blah..blah..." when some of his arguments and opinions on the matter are bloomin valid - and I speak as a woman who works part time...

some folks think it - I know my grandad was one, but he "learned" not to say it.... which to be honest I found a bit sad.....

In what way is it sad? That he has learned not to offend people?

Surprised some people are saying opinions which are racist/sexist/homophobic are just as valid as others and we should calmly listen to people talk a load of shit.

NO we have to make a strand when someone is saying something that is wrong. When you just stand by and don't speak up you are enabling it you are allowing people to be hurt. You become a part of the problem.

Know better

grimbletart has it exactly, as people age they hark more and more back to the world of their youth.

For people in their 80's that's still before and during WW2.

For worse and better a lot has changed.

The loss of decent industrial jobs and prospects for many men to find a way to support their families saddens my engineer father terribly.

The move to tolerance and women's rights is clearly an improvement and having two DDs my dad does his best with this, but he doesn't always succeed.

But what ever Londoners think, for many of us in rural, dare I say West country, areas Ethnic minorities are rare and keeping up with this weeks PC language is impossible.

Sadly even young adults and school children can behave badly. DDs friend and her sister were the only non whites at their primary. Even now in her large secondary there are very few. Nasty things have been said, she is the nicest child imaginable.

Sadly if young people who should no better don't, I think the OPs father may be beyond hope.

However, that doesn't mean she shouldn't tell him to fucking shut up, it just means he won't hear her

Would that really be your response if you were bisexual and your own father who knew this kept treating you to homophobic rants?

The point is, it won't matter how the OP responds. He's obviously a rude, unpleasant and inconsiderate old fool, but he isn't going to change.

No doubt he feels that his views are as valid as hers - but if she doesn't want to hear them (understandable) then she needs to stop visiting.

As Mutt said, further upthread:

So just leave. Tell him you find his beliefs "nasty, racist, homophobic" and unacceptable. And leave.

ByTheWay1 Wed 12-Dec-12 10:05:37
"He's in his house voicing an opinion.... you can either let him know how you feel or leave.... personally I would just tell him he was "an old fashioned old duffer, people don't say that stuff out loud any more" "

Would that really be your response if you were bisexual and your own father who knew this kept treating you to homophobic rants?

He's in his house voicing an opinion.... you can either let him know how you feel or leave.... personally I would just tell him he was "an old fashioned old duffer, people don't say that stuff out loud any more"

some folks think it - I know my grandad was one, but he "learned" not to say it.... which to be honest I found a bit sad.....

If anyone told me to "shut the F* up" in my own home they would be asked to leave and not invited back as I would find that extremely impolite and rude.....

I have this with my Dad, he uses the P* word instead of Pakistani which drives me insane.

He had it with both barrels off me when he said it in front of the boys last week and got agitated, mine are teens and they even look at him with that face when he starts!

You'd think he'd get the message by now!

The fact that something is legal does not make it morally right. And it certainly doesn't make it good manners.

Most things to do with manners are not prescribed in law: they are governed by social conventions. We still expect people to have them. Telling people that they are ugly, that their children are thick, that their disabled child shouldn't have been born- no law against any of those.

But you can expect to get into trouble with other people if you indulge.

The only sensible response for the OP would be to say calmly: "I am sorry but I cannot stay and listen to this hurtful nonsense" and walk out.

If he has a right to spout his opinions (which is debatable), he certainly doesn't have the right to an audience. No law can enforce that.

We had some pretty miserable times with an elderly relative who spouted oldfashioned racist ideas about my adopted db. Imo the correct response would be for my father (as the closest relative) to have said calmly "yes, you are entitled to your opinions, but I am afraid if you insist on voicing them, we will not visit you or invite you."

I quite agree.

I agree, am related to some! But still doesn't't justify refusing to let them express their unpleasant opinions I think

II31 there are some people who have a natural authoritarian instinct who seek to control every aspect of other people. There is no reasoning with them.

Doingit -yes, no matter who is hurt. I'm not saying that making those comments is nice or acceptable thing to do but people have right to their owm opinions. Or do you think people should only express opinions you agree with?
some people hold hugely offensive opinions, but why is their right to hold them less valid than yours?

No Doingit, you were replying to
1l31 think he's the right to express his opinions - also you've right to disagree.

with

DoingitOnTheRoofTopWithSanta No matter who is hurt by it eh? 1131?

So the shoot him question was perfectly valid and not at all daily mail. Did you mean to be so condescending?

YABU - it's his house, it's not like he's trying to incite a mob in the streets. They're not very nice comments, but he is entitled to his opinion, especially in his own house.

You are not being unreasonable to WISH he would shut up- but you are being pretty unreasonable to EXPECT him to. People don't change. If he is racist and homophobic he has presumably made comments like this throughout your life and will not change now. I agree that they are unpleasant, but getting enraged by an older person commenting, 'how disgusting' about gay marriage is a bit pointless. It is a fairly controversial issue - you can't demand that everyone agrees with your own views. Your father is entitled to express his opinion about news items in his own home, whether you agree with these views or not. And yes, his language leaves a lot to be desired but I'm not sure what you think you can achieve with him. Is he aware that you are bisexual and that this is personally hurtful to you?

Also why wold her options be

1. tell him to STFU

or

2. shoot him?

Honestly MN is being invaded by the daily mail

Well the title says should she she tell him to shut the fuck up... So probably that

if he doesn't like it he can ask her to leave and she will be better off.

It was in his own house Doingit, what are you proposing she do about it? Shoot him?