Mumsnet Talk

than our lovely selves? Fuelled by reading another thread and a week of how our European neighbours have it nailed and we don't.

Last week I was reading the times about how much better behaved French children are. Firstly, the worst behaved teenagers are actually the French in London. Secondly, it is quite easy to discipline a child if you scare the shit out of them.

On to my next point apparently, we are the fattest in Europe - however, I am sure that if you look in places like Paris / Milan you will find a Macdonalds and plenty of fat french / spanish.

Lastly, the time old criticism that we are a dowdy bunch. Again, myth after myth. I have seen plenty of dowdy french people in my time - usually in the suburbs (I have visited france plenty) and the comparison is a bit like comparing Paris-women with say the stereo-typical Essex lass (sorry essex lass' I am sure you all have lots of style but I had to find a comparator).

If you want to join a rant please come and tell me something that the English do better.

Personally, I think English children are the kindest and politest in Europe.

I think it's all a load of over generalising old bollocks to be honest

Even the last line of your OP

People are just that...people and as such, they'll have have had different upbringings, education, experiences.

That's what shapes a person imo...not which country you happen to be born in.

When I read those kinds of things I tend to think 'Oh well, I'm still glad we never joined the euro' <shrug>

This kind of thread annoys the hell out of me. Of course there are cultural differences but we are also dealing with individuals. And how anyone can complain about those statements while simultaneously uttering rubbish like the worst behaved teenagers are actually the French in London while keeping a straight face deserves some sort of award.

All that's missing is "click Like if you agree".

to quote Gilbert and Sullivan...
" The idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone, All centuries but this, and every country but his own"

People here are kind. I am coming away from a meeting where a childcare provider has offered me some free care to support me whilst my daughter is waiting for SENCO to sort out an assessment. Where the school wellbeing worker cried with me this morning and is willing to put in so much effort to organise help and support. Where the headteacher has provided funding for extra help in getting the kids to school. And all this just because I went in for a cup of tea one day after a difficult morning.

I see kindness at the children's centres I go to, where people go the extra mile to help those in need. And I see mum's fighting causes for those with disabilities and health problems that are losing funding off their own backs. And I see Mumsnet where there is so much compassion and support for women who are suffering with child loss, domestic violence, relationship break downs, and everyday crises.

I'd much rather be a kind person than anything else. Good moral fibre is worth more to me than beauty or sophistication or well behaved blooming children.

I don't have European neighbours. Oh god, is that another example of how dreadfully provincial we are down here.....

Oh dear, the truth does sting rather, doesn't it!

Not seriously, I actually agree with worra. I've lived in 'Europe' for over twenty years and it's swings and roundabouts - there are inevitably going to be some aspects of a country that work better or worse than another country. It does rather balance out.

I totally understand what you mean. The grass is always greener on the other side.

I was born in the UK and now live in Germany, although DH and I have also lived in 2 other countries.

I think that we Brits tend to be far too hard on ourselves. The British newspapers are always moaning on about the poor diet and obesity problems in the UK. You don't see German newspapers making such a big issue of it, although my personal experience is that people have much unhealthier diets here (I'm sure that the proportion of overweight children is pretty much the same).

In fact, that's definitely the thing that, contrary to popular believe, the UK does MUCH better than everyone imagines: food. Many people over here have very old-fashioned ideas about what "healthy" is: my MIL fries everything in pork lard, never eats vegetables and doesn't understand my she's overweight because she "only has a cold meal (read: more bread, butter, cheese and sausagemeats) in the evening". I was brought up (in the west of Scotland, incidentally) with lots of veg, salads, fruit and fish. Obviously there are good and bad diets everywhere but I generally think that people of the same generation in the UK are a lot more clued-up about healthy eating in general.

UK supermarkets offer so much choice. German supermarkets are very focused on keep costs low and very limited in terms of their range in comparison. You're fine if you're looking for pork, bread and other "traditional" staples, but you'll face a 4-hour shopping tour round 101 speciality shops if you're looking for anything as "exotic" as butternut squash or baby spinach. When I go into an M&S or a Waitrose now, I could literally cry.

And yet....I still have to hear those jibes about British food being SO awful. Luckily, my German DH always sticks up for us. He admits that the best meals out we've ever had have all been in the UK - you just don't get the same creativity and mix of cultures here unless you spend a fortune.

I also think that British children are better behaved on the whole (difficult to generalise, but still). I read in the papers here once that German parents rate their child's "ability to assert him/herself" way higher than "consideration for others". It shows. I don't have DCs yet, but I hope that "British manners" will prevail if I do

Totally agree about the old myth of the British being dowdy as well. My colleagues at work are always asking me where I buy my clothes (99% of the time it's in the UK). One was actually cheeky enough to say that she was amazed my dresses were so nice because she'd heard the British had awful dress sense in general. She now uses the Internet to order clothes online from British shops!

It annoys me too. There is good and bad everywhere, and different opinions. There are fat frumpy French women, there are German people who don't even like sausages, there are short people in Sweden (not many, admittedly) and youth crime certainly exists in all these places.

we do get praised for some things that we're the best in europe at - think music, tv, comedy etc.

and we're the only ones who know how to make decent crisps.

think i might trade crisps for subsidised childcare and a decent train system though

The fashion thing is complete crap too. I've lived in Paris, now I live in London. We holiday two or three times a year in deeply rural Normandy.

My perception is that the fashions in London are much more interesting, creative, vibrant and individualised than your average Parisien(ne) would wear (all beige, black & navy). As for the fashions outside of Paris, well think 'last of the summer wine' and you won't be far wrong!

I think its easy to see the supposed advantages of living somewhere from a tourist's pov, without understanding the sometimes subtle negative sides. I lived in Switzerland for a few years - German part - with young kids and things are not always as they first appear.

I think the only time comparisons are useful is when somebody says that something can't be done - and you can see from looking elsewhere that isn't true.

For example, in past, no we can't have NMW as it will lead to unemployment. Answer - well they manage it in x country without any problems. And also individually - you can't possible expect a 5 year old child to walk to school alone. Answer - You amy not want them to, but many 5 year olds manage this perfectly well in other countries.

You may think things aren't desirable or not the best use of resources, but imo this isn't the same as saying you can't do or expect something.

I'd trade fish and chip shops for a decent bratwurst with curry ketchup from the schnelly.

English children can sing, and learn songs off by heart. They can also TELL THE FXXKING TIME!

YABU.
Most articles about European fashion sense or children's behaviour are just a silly exercise, as fashion sense is certainly difficult to quantify.

Statistics on obesity or cancer survival rates are another matter, and honestly I can't see why you'd feel insulted if statistically your country occupy a certain place. It is a fact.

I think that being convinced that British children are the best behaved or that French teenagers the best dressed is just a bit silly.

redexpat That's a curious one - and obviously heartfelt. Do tell more!

There's nothing wrong with the rest of Europe, well nothing worse than what's wrong with us, seeing as we all have our problems and social issues.

I have to admit that other than emitting a mild Grrrr at the book title "French Children Don't Throw Food" I'm not overly concerned how my country (UK) is perceived, only how I and my family are, and even then, if people are wrong, they're wrong.

I do think it's better abroad - but not in europe.

Lots of things I like but the fattest (really f'cking bloody obese kids) I've seen are in southern Italy and lots of them, the rudest most unreasonable parents I've seen in my local park are french. The only proper shopping is in London.

But the nicest weather is in southern europe and people who really have got it together (in my view) are in scandinavia.

But it's so much better outside europe.

YANBU.

I haven't lived abroad, but have travelled a bit and have friends and family who have moved to other countries in Europe.

I do agree that the British can be down on themselves at times, and that these unflattering comparisons do nothing but irk people and perpetuate myths.

Don't mention the words fish and chips. I would almost have a flight home just to have them. The Scottish pub here does an approximation but not like the real thing.

But better to put ourselves down then live in a wierd delusion like many countries.