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AIBU?

In thinking some private landlords don't understand wear and tear?

59 replies

digggers · 27/08/2010 21:47

In my last tennancy I rented for 8 years. In that time the landlady didn't once do any renovation to the property. Even when we notified her of things breaking, she said if we weren't bothered neither was she. For instance, the surround coming off the bath and the glass on top if a table breaking. She never painted the house in eight years, never did anything to the garden.

I kept the house and garden to my standards. I am not filthy, but could never be called fastidious. I cleaned the house thoroughly when I left, scrubbed and polished the wooden floors by hand, washed paintwork and windows etc. I tidied the garden twice a year, and kept the grass mowed, but I'm no proffessional, some bushes were unruly. I kinda liked that. I washed the ( White) sofa covers, but they weren't immaculate as they'd had eight years of use. Everything was clean, but it wasn't as it had been eight years previous. Eight years without any maintenance or redecoration.

Am I unreasonable to think she has unrealistic expectations to expect that everything be in perfect condition after having been used for eight years with no maintenance? If she'd been living there herself, then she'd have upkept as she went surely?

The landlord kept all my deposit, saying she needed redecorate and have the garden professionally redone and buy new some furniture.

Am I missing something?

OP posts:

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SocialButterfly · 27/08/2010 21:52

Did you have an inventory? It should be to the same standard as when you moved in with general wear and tear taken in to account.

IF she registered your deposit ( which I dont think she would have had to do 8 years ago but would have to now) you could complain to them that you feel it is unfair and they will arbitrate but if not then its a difficult one to argue as she holds all the cards.

fortyplus · 27/08/2010 21:54

Threaten her with small claims court for return of deposit. Make it clear that your claim will include costs. Give her 28 days to return the deposit in full.

reallytired · 27/08/2010 21:54

She has been dishonest. Was your desposit in a proper scheme? If not then she can be forced to pay you additional money as well as your desposit. I am not sure of the details as we have never had bad tenants.

She cannot legally just take your desposit. There is a proper proceedure when you take a tenants desposit.

I suggest that you contact the Citizens advice bureau. I am sure you have a strong case to take her to the small claims court. Enforcing your claim may well be a problem though.

Portofino · 27/08/2010 21:56

No, YANBU. There is a big rental market where I live and 9 years is considered to be the "depreciation" period. As in move out afrer 2 years and you pay 7/9 of the cost of work that needs doing etc. Basically after 8 years it is entirely reasonable that the whole place needs redecorating/new furniture. My sofa is 10 years old and we need a new one.....

dizietsma · 27/08/2010 21:56

This is why I will never pay my last months rent ever again. Honestly never heard of anyone getting their deposit back, no matter how immaculate the house is. Deposits are the biggest scam going IMO.

SocialButterfly · 27/08/2010 21:57

reallytired - it wasnt mandatory 8 years ago for landlords to register a deposit so dont think that would apply in this case.

digggers · 27/08/2010 21:59

No no inventory. At the time she was all sweetness and light, saying there was no need, if anything broke just throw it away.

I'll admit the place wasn't immaculate. Chipped paint in places, the sofa covers weren't shiny and bright as there'd been a tea stain that I'd treated with stain remover a few years previous, and had faded to a cream. Not outrageous and dirty, just 8 year old White sofa covers that had been used and washed frequently. The garden wasn't immaculately tidy, the hydranga bush had grown over the years, the roses had grown. I wasn't always sure how much to cut them back each year, so they were definately bigger than before. The Walls were a wee bit dirty as I used to smoke, stopped now. But she knew that when we moved in.

OP posts:

Skyrg · 27/08/2010 22:00

Was the tenancy agreement for 8 years? Or did you renew it? I think if you renew it and sign a new contract, THEN the deposit has to be protected.

fernie3 · 27/08/2010 22:01

this happened to us, the landlord has basically redone the whole house and kept our deposit for things like "varnish door" and "wipe down kitchen tiles" - this was a £900 deposit. We gave up arguing in the end.

rainbowinthesky · 27/08/2010 22:03

After 8 years a landlord should surely expect to have to do a total redecoration and gardening, buy new furniture etc.

SocialButterfly · 27/08/2010 22:03

tbh Im a letting agent and a tea stain on a sofa (for example) would not be classed as wear and tear.

Garden doesnt sound too bad but depending in how stained the walls were we may expect them to be repainted too if it was down to nicotine.

Thats the problem when there is nothing down in writing, everybody has different opinions on what is acceptable.

nameymcnamechange · 27/08/2010 22:05

Dizietsma - that's funny, I've always received my full deposit back after moving out of rented properties (there have been several).

It doesn't help our op, but by law, deposits paid to private landlords are now protected by being held in a neutral bank account.

digggers · 27/08/2010 22:06

She never bothered giving us a contract after a couple of years. Was all pally, like it didn't matter, we're all friends etc. She even came round six months before we moved out to inspect the place and sat and had a cup of tea and said it was fine.

Gah. I'm glad it not just me. Was feeling a bit if a dirty minger. She said that it was disgusting and that she had to take the sofa to the tip, and that it took the gardener a week to sort the garden out :-(

OP posts:

violeta · 27/08/2010 22:07

Re registering the deposit: if you renewed your contract at any time over the 8 years then the landlady should have registered the deposit. If she didn't, she was breaking the law.

She can't take money for redecoration - a landlady should redecorate every 2 yrs apparently. Not your responsibility.

She also can't charge you to buy new furniture - all she can deduct from your deposit would be the damage you have caused over the period of the tenancy (not including wear and tear).

She's acting illegally, basically. I would threaten to take things further re the registering of the deposit (you could get 3x back the cost of the deposit if you so wanted). Also ask her to quantify the amounts, i.e. £100 for the armchair and so on.

With a bit of negotiation and threatening to boot, it should all work out. Good luck!

mumtoabeautifulbabyboy · 27/08/2010 22:08

Socialbutterfly - out of interest, what would you class as 'wear & tear'

reallytired · 27/08/2010 22:08

take her to the small claims court. The only problem you have is that its a bit of a joke as enforcing a claim is difficult.

However you can make sure she has a county court judgement against her name. That way she will not be able to borrow any money and in some jobs (ie. finance) having a CCJ will resort is dismissal.

digggers · 27/08/2010 22:11

What is wear and tear then? How do people manage to live in houses without the Walls getting dirty and spilling things ? What is reasonable?

I even offered to redocrate if she bought the paint, but no!

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violeta · 27/08/2010 22:12

If there was no inventory, she hasn't got a leg to stand on. She can't prove that anything is any worse than when you moved in.

Sounds like you should get charged for the tea stain but everything else is debatable.

Basically it works at the cost of the item now. And as items depreciate in value, if you caused damage to a sofa, she would have to charge you for how much the sofa would be worth now. Which wouldn't be very much.

rainbowinthesky · 27/08/2010 22:13

If I were to rent somewhere I wouldnt expect the same sofa that had just been used by the previous tenant for 8 years.

Skyrg · 27/08/2010 22:13

No contract? That can't be legal..

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 27/08/2010 22:15

Never pay your last months rent. It's the simple way to ensure return of your deposit.

digggers · 27/08/2010 22:16

It's done now. A complicated set of emotional circumstances that led to me having to mive meant u dudn't feel able to argue. But I just wonder whether I was in the wrong for future reference.

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SocialButterfly · 27/08/2010 22:16

Ok so there is no hard and fast rules but generally anything that has not been caused by the tenant or that could be rectified by generally cleaning.

For instance - stains on carpet, dirty bathroom, dusty skirting boards, scuffs on wall when furniture has rubbed - all NOT wear and tear.

Worn carept, rotten window frames, rusty taps would all be wear and tear.

digggers · 27/08/2010 22:17

Move not mive

I not u!

Sorry, typing on an iPhone is rubbish

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StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 27/08/2010 22:26

After eight years, presumably with children in the home, I'd expect the odd stain and scuff on the walls. That IS wear and tear.

If a person owned their home, they'd expect these things to happen.

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