Anyone's DC had problems with Dermol stinging?

[AngelDog]

We were using Diprobase but switched to Dermol yesterday to see if it works any better. 14 m.o. DS has red inflamed and sometimes weepy skin on his face. Fucidin H recently cleared it up but the redness came back as soon as we stopped using it. We're back to the GP next week.

He's been crying lots today & last night, although not the instant I put the Dermol on, so it's hard to guess whether it might be that stinging. We've been using it as a soap substitute for washing his hands/face for several weeks without problems.

Has anyone else found that Dermol stings?

YES!! In fact ds's eczema had flared up badly again in his joints and he started crying as soon as I got the bottle out as it hurts when we apply it

I wondered if it was only stinging as the ezcema was cracked, and was going to take him back to the docs if it conitnued and ask for something else, we'd been given diprobaase last year but it hadn;t even vaguley helped and the dermol had sorted it within a week

Luckily he can go for ages without his eczema effected him, infact it's been a year and was about this time last year when it had last been bad

Sorry for the ramble but yes thank you it must be something in it that makes it stingy..although his ezcema has done right back down after only one application so what to do

Oh sorry forgot to add it is defo the dermal stinging as ds is nine years old so could say it was stinging iykwim, I just wondered if it was due to the cracks in his skin and that anything would make it sting

Thanks - that does make sense. His skin is cracked. I wiped his face with cotton wool & water, then put on Diprobase and he was fine. I tried Dermol again a bit later and he didn't protest, but I suspect that was because of having put the Diprobase on earlier.

Back to the Diprobase again for the time being it is then.

Hi, sorry for the long post but I've been through the mill with my little boy and his eczema and I'd like to pass on our experiences if it'll help another baby..

My 5 1/2 month old DS has had eczema since he was about 2 months old.

I've seen the GP, the pediatic doctors at Queen Charlottes Children's Walk-in, a dermatology nurse at an NHS eczema clinic and finally we decided to pay to see Dr. David Atherton who is a childrens dermatologist at Great Ormond Street. I've had a lot of different advice from everyone from our GP to strangers on the tube and Dr. Atherton cleared up lots of questions for me.

1. Basically eczema is the result of the outer layer of skin not performing it's job effectively which to protect the living skin beneath. Dry skin in a little baby is often an indication that this outer layer isn't working as well as it should.

1. Although it isn't contagious, once eczema takes hold it often gets worse. stress can cause a flare up and the itch from eczema can be stressful.

1. Olive oil on the skin is not a good idea as it 1. It contains an acid that damages this outer layer and 2.any edible oil is food for yeast which live on the skin and can multiply, which could lead to secondary yeast infections. I think this happened to my little boy as I was using pure olive oil on his scalp, which has flared up again and again.

He asked me to stop using the anti-bacterial dermol 300 lotion and dermol 600 bath oil the GP gave us as anything antibaterial can irritate the skin. He said oats in the bath is fine and can help the itching. He said to bathe baby twice a day until we get on top of the eczema as damp skin from the bath is primed to better absorb the steroids and moisturisers needed on the skin. He suggested we wash baby with Epaderm or Diprobase from a pump (as tubs are easily reinfected with bacteria from baby's skin) but as a moisturiser he gave us 50/50 liquid parafin in soft white parafin (available from GP) and he's said to use this every hour on the face and at every nappy change on the body until we get on top of the eczema.

He also perscribed us a steroid cream (not hydrocortisine) in parafin, made by Great Ormond Street (and v. expensive £130 for a tub which should last 3 months) which is to be applied all over twice a day after a bath. He assured me it's perfectly safe and has been used by thousands of babies with no ill effect. I had used hydrocortisine 1% before this appointment and found it did help, just not enough to clear DS's skin completely. (it would start to clear an then come back as soon as we stopped - although the eczema nurse told me that because people are scared of the side effects of steroids, they often see parents under-using. He recommended I use it until DS's face was totally clear, and then for a further week after that - it never totally cleared but this might be relevant for you if the Fucidin worked)

Diprobase is fine as a soap-substitute but an OINTMENT is much more effective to moisturise than a cream as it will help to fulfil the barrier function the skin isn't doing very well, keeping moisture in and irritants out.

This all said, I haven't yet had time to see results from the specialist's advice, our appointment was yesterday. In practice the best results I've seen on baba's face have been from a regime of 1% hydrcortisine twice a day, lush dream cream applied all day long and swaddling baby so he can't scratch his face at night.

Hope somthing in here helps.. Feel free to message me if you have any other questions, I've tried so many things!

Ohno, and others

My DD has gad eczema since 3 months, now 6 months - started as cradle cap and spread to face and arms, back and legs, The only place she is free of it is tunny - perhaps because she doesn't lie on tummy and rub it etc.

I fill really frustrated because we have been to GP and eczema clinic and still NOTHING works. She has been using Eumovate and Cetroben but also Dermol and Epaderm. The 1% cortesone did nothing but the Eumovate works on some patches on her face but not on the massive raised discs of it on her arms. So we have been using it for nearly a month and its not doing anything. I don't know where to go from here. The GP is useless because DDs eczema does not follow usual patterns and we don't ahve another appointment at clinic for a couple of weeks. In the meantime she seems really unhappy and itchy and distressed.

So- I am thinking of taking her to a chinese medicine doctor. I know this sort of thing can get poopooed but I have had a lot of people suggesting this to me. Western medicine certainly is not working.

Oh no I've just calmly reread your post. It's extremely useful and my post is a bit of a panicked mess! I just dint know what to do.

From your post I am wondering if I should ask for a thicker ointment. We did use epaderm in a tub which was a nightmare and I worried about infection from scooping from the tub so I'm back on cetraben. Am also wondering about lush dream cream. And have you ever come across salcura? It's a natural range that possibly was helping. I'd stopped it as have run out in the last couple of days so maybe that's why it's worse. It's so hard to be properly scientific about all this.
Also - did you ever use piriton? We've got it on prescription but it says not suitable for u der 1 so I'm hesitating.

I was sent some samples of QV which is supposed to be good for eczema. DD has sensitive skin but not eczema so I don't know how how effective it would be for eczema, but maybe worth a try.

Dermol made DS2s eczema much worse. It looked like he'd been badly burned.

We stuck to Epaderm applied up to 6 times a day, wet wrapping at night and steriod cream when necessary. He quickly improved, but each child's experience with eczema is different.

We identitied his allergies at a fairly young age and now, age 3, he has no eczema at all.

Thanks everyone - and ohnororo for such a detailed post. I'm sorry I didn't see this before - it had dropped off my 'threads I'm on' list.

I've just skimmed it but will sit down and have a proper read later.

The GP says they only refer to the eczema nurse if we're having to constantly use steroids and that isn't the case for DS at the moment - his skin isn't too bad although it changes on a daily basis.

I've been prescribed Oilatum to put in the bath, but I'm wondering whether to bother since DS doesn't like sitting in the bath and will only stand up.

I've switched to Diprobase ointment to see if that irritates any less than the cream which the doctor said is more likely to have irritating additives in.

Mrsdumbledosen- with the tubs, he told me to either use a spoon to take out the moisturiser, then throw away whatevers left on the spoon that you don't use. He also suggested decanting into small pots for use when you're out. Boots do some little travel pots quite cheaply. I did hear about Salcura but it's one of the few I never tried. Lush dream cream worked well for us, in that it calmed the redness and seemed to soothe my little boy, but it contains olive oil which, as I posted earlier, I've now been told is not a good idea for skin. I really want to break the eczema path so have decided to follow Dr Athertons advice to the letter and have dropped dream cream. He also told me to moisturise with the 50/50 every hour. Once skin is inflamed it's even less able to protect against irritants so I think the idea is to never let it dry out..

Angel- your GP is wrong. eczema may not be dangerous but it's debilitating for the whole family if baby can't sleep and getting on top of it early is important. I'd go back and insist or take baby to a walk in paediatric clinic and ask a dr there to refer you. Be so annoying it's less trouble for them to deal with you than fob you off! I'm not pushy by nature but I've found I've absolutely had to be in order to have DS seen by eczema nurse.

ohnororo, thanks again for giving so much detail.

Can I ask you a few more questions?

How long should/do you bathe for at a time?

What do you use to apply the soap substitute - do you put it straight on the skin and wash off, or on a flannel etc? I'm thinking particularly about washing hands/face before & after meals.

At what point do you start using the steroid? I've got some straight hydrocortisone cream for when there's a flare up but I find it hard to know when I should start using it.

The directions are to use it for 7 days. With the Fucidin etc I always used it for the max. length of time and the last time we used it, DS's skin was better than it'd ever been, although the redness returned when we stopped using it. The previous steroid was Eumovate, which led to his face flaring up even more badly than before using it. Apart from the Eumovate we've only had hydrocortisone with anti-fungal (Canesten HC) or antibiotics (Fucidin H) so I'll see how this goes next time I need to use it.

Do you have a brand name for the 50/50 cream, or is it a generic one?

I feel slightly in limbo as my GP has just gone on maternity leave for a year, so I need to decide which doctor to see about DS's eczema and start to hassle them a bit.

OTOH, DS's face is looking better than it has been for a long while, which is cheering. Thankfully his eczema isn't bad enough to stop him sleeping.

I have been told second hand that flannels in the bath are not good, because of infection but it's good to use an emollient cleanser. So today I used an oat bath and epaderm cleanser before she got out. I've also been told it's a good idea to clean with emollients as the act of passing your hand over the eczema area encourages the damaged skin to shed.

I was using dermal 600 on bath and oilatem with antibac stuff but feel it's too harsh. So as ohno suggests im using the musln and oats The eczema nurses said she should soak for 15 mins but I don't do that long as it gets cold and there is enough to do with creaming and waiting for steroids to sink in, as you must know!

Ohno, thanks for your response earlier re tubs and other rungs and good luck with this doctor, let us know how it goes.

Can I ask have you done allergy testing at all. Sorry if you have and you've mentioned it and I'm bring dense. I'm on iPhone whilst breeding!

Thanks, mrsbumbledosem. At the moment I use a clean flannel each time I wash DS.

15 mins sounds like quite a long time - especially for me given that I'll have to work hard to persuade DS to sit down in the bath!

ohnororo, another quick question (hope you don't mind!): what do you use for cleaning your DS when you change his nappy? At the moment I use washable wipes with a mix of water with a splash of vegetable oil and a few drops of lavender oil, but I'm wondering whether I should change this given what you were told about vegetable oils.

Dermol stung DS1 too (as did Aveeno and lots of other stuff we tried), we found Oilatum in bath + Doublebase emollient + 1% hydrocortisone to work best. Lots of good advice here but would add that pushing for referral is essential, most GPs know v little about eczema. Also whoever mentioned Chinese medicine, it often contains strong steroids so definitely not a good idea.

Meg - does it? I did mention it as I am getting a little frustrated - GP no good and eczema clinics, although better are still unable to do anything about the huge angry raised discs all over her arms- not even Eumovate. Have you tried the Chinese medicine yourself?
I know it has a rep if you go to a dodgy practitioner but I would be very careful. Also Meg, does the doublebase have a strong smell ( like Epaderm?)

AngelDog, I know what you mean about clean new flannel everytime but they said to me to only use hands and Emolient to clean her. And can I ask AD, what are the washable wipes you use? I just use flannel on DD and now she has started solids her bottom is red too (sorry for tangent!)

Ohno, why do you feel the big private doc was better for you than the eczema clinics? Probably an obvious question but I just wondered as I thought they were experts too. I mean do they have a different approach?

by the way - i mean flannels in the bath for washing eczema areas and not flannels for nappy changing / un affected areas!

My washable wipes are just terry flannels cut up small.

I can't remember whether DS got a red bottom when he started solids, so I can't speak from experience there I'm afraid.

OK thanks AD

We've been using 50/50 cream for years on DD1's eczema. It's the only cream which has never stung her to apply and it works brilliantly. Most pharmacies have it in stock if you ask and it's not expensive.

We use Hydrous ointment twice a day as a preventative measure on healthy skin and change to 50/50 cream if it starts to look red or begins to get a bit sore.

Steroid creams have worked well to reduce flare-ups with Fucidin added when it gets infected.

We find the best thing is to try to stay ahead of the game and slightly overreact to any change as prevention is so much easier than cure.

have any of you checked out the eczema society website Loads of good information about why you get eczema as well as treatments and common irritants to avoid

Basics are it's a genetic disorder meaning the skin layers aren't working properly mean at risk of being affected by irritants

Moiturisers replace lost moisture but also create a barrier against irritants so apply as often as possible

Mostursers - lotions 5% oil based Creams 20% oil based ointments 80% oil based which is why ointments are the most effective

Always use a pump or decant if you've got a tub to prevent contamination of cream as you can re infect Ointments usually come in a tub as too thick for a pump

steroids on anything that starts to look red and wean down rather than stop suddenly.

Good luck to you all I've had 2 children with eczema fortunately both now much better but it is horrible to see your children distressed & so frustrating feeling people think it's only a bit of eczema. Push for a referral to a paed dermatologist if you can

oh forgot yes dermol can sting but then so do a lot of treatments when really bad flare up.

Dermol bath is great for reducing bacteria on the skin and helping to prevent or treat infection

Well today DS's face is better than it has been for a long while. :)

I've been washing with Diprobase cream and using Diprobase ointment as the emollient, and it seems to be a lot kinder on his skin so I'll stick with that for the time being and see how it goes.

Thanks everyone.

Steroids in Chinese medicine

Doublebase is v light and easily absorbed and doesn't smell at all.