Mumsnet Talk

Is this really the best way to protect our children?

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/article3393674.ece

You might have to c&p because of the times paywall.

Good point!!

This is appalling. It goes against many of the principles of a fair and just system -the " accused" has no right to know the allegations against her and no right of reply. Evidence was taken from anonymous experts and the accused was not given the oppertunity to appoint her own

Sadly this is not a one off. The system desperately needs to be reformed

Why is it posted in adoptions though? (sorry cannot read Times but presume this is about SS removing a child rather than being about adoption).

sorry also cannot read the TImes online.

Try this link its the same story about ordinary parents seeking help and the precautions you need to take in the post Baby P world.

www.itv.com/thismorning/life/branded-an-unfit-mother/#.T4uohNREXzM.facebook

and the connection to the adoption board is?

Well obviously i dont know what was in the Ops mind. But i asume the connection is that adopters and adoptees have a patticular concern for good,fair, ethical,child centred and evidence based practice in social services. Or if they dont they should have.

Surely adopters only want to afopt a child who could not possibly under any circumstances stay with his/her parenst or extended family? Who would want to have to tell their child that he was in fact placed for adoption because of social services malpratice and his bio parenst were perfctly innocent?

That's a society issue not one solely for adopters though. It's not adopters role to police SS and family courts.
Putting it here seems to be saying, 'look adopters your children could have been wrongly taken' and that feels a pretty low thing to do. Adopters don't 'steal' children away from misunderstood parents!

Well it is about an adoption is it not?

Or are we only aloud to post 'nice' things?

Its about the operation of SS isn't it? Surely that affects everyone, not just adopters?

Really fenella? I didnt read that into it at all

When soemone posts about say, the treatment of rape vistims on the feminist section of mumsnet, i dont think they are saying that feminists should Be reponsible for the police and the courts. I assume they are postijg because they think that mumsnetters in general and those in the feminnist board in particular will be concerned about violence against women and girls

What a barking comparison

The child in this story wasn't adopted - so again I ask - what is the connection to the adoption board?

Or is this just about vilifying adopters?

Im not sure how a story thats not about adoption can be an attempt to villify adopters. But i can see we have different opinions on this.

Have a nice evening

I'm glad you agree its not about adoption, which is the point I have been making - why post it here!

I didnt post it

I know that, I can tell by the gift of reading

Sadly if her posts on the Relationships board are anything to go by the OP might have had her children removed by SS.

I agree with you both in that this isn't solely an issue for adopters and I feel a bit uncomfortable with the implications of it being posted specifically on this board but at the same time of course no adoptive parent would want to think that their child had been removed from the birth family unnecessarily.

Blimey where else do the children come from.........an underclass of feckless parents who don't want their children?!

The overwhelming majority of children in care are not placed for adoption so I don't think the issue of removing children unnecessarily from their families is best placed at the "adoption" door. I also think the attempt to shoehorn children being removed unfairly into being an "adoption" issue is pointless and distracts from the point you are trying to make which (I think) is that there is too much secrecy in the social services/family courts which I doubt many adopters who would disagree with you.

This kind of comment "Blimey where else do the children come from.........an underclass of feckless parents who don't want their children?!" is going to put many adopters backs up though as indeed many many children are removed from "feckless" parents.

I would 100% support an improvement in Uk child protection procedures - that includes the rights of families to stay together where that is possible and in the bets interests of the child, to increase openness and scrutiny and accountability in family courts and to support the right of every child to grow up in safety.

Great post Kewcumber

At the hub of this discussion is the question of who should decide when a child should be removed and on what grounds. I suspect that the bar has moved down a bit since Baby Peter and not many would disagree with that.

But for those people who have adopted children we can only trust that Social Services have acted fairly when a child is removed. We are not involved in that decision.

I would never wish a child to be unfairly removed from his or her birth parents. And in all my dealings with SS everyone has been at great pains to explain how they do everything they can do keep families together and that adoption is a last resort.

Of everyone on Mumsnet, those of us in the adoption section probably have the most insight into this area already. If OP wants to raise awareness then perhaps choose a different area of the forums??

The OP has already started 3 other threads on this subject, including one in Mental Health implying that it is not safe to seek help if you are a depressed mother.