So I believe everyone has the right to identify as they choose. If someone feels they are more female than their genitalia suggests or vice versa or if someone doesn't identify as a specific gender gender then I feel we live in a modern society which can be inclusive of everyone.
But
Given the number women who are murdered/raped/attacked by men. We (women) have the right to be safe and I would say that trumps the right to identify. So yes there should be womens spaces, and yes women should have their own category in sport. So what does that mean? Womens spaces, gender neutral spaces and mens spaces seems the most logical solution as it would also work for people who are gender neutral, none binary and pan gender. Surely that's the thing to be fighting for?
Feminism: Sex & gender discussions
Trans women are women but
autienotnaughty · 11/11/2022 12:42
nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 13:39
The 'othering' thing.
So then you say right. Fine. So the women's space becomes the all women's spaces (male and female ones - yes, I know, personally I think it's nuts but inclusion and kindness and tolerance being a thing and let's all compromise yada yada) and we'll have an additional female only space for the females who cannot share mixed spaces and frankly don't care about being othered because they really do just want to use the space to meet a physical need and don't want to end up with no access to those spaces or services at all. We'll be othered, we don't care.
Then you get the next wave of rage and whining and realise that the issue is not the 'othering' it's that there would be a group of females unconquered and allowed to not comply, a space not conquered and that means there's a part of femalehood that male people cannot own and take from female people. And when you dig a bit further you often encounter a belief that until those resisting female people in the female spaces are the ones doing the validating there's a bit of womanhood not yet achieved .
And you realise that as a biological female, these males see you merely as props. Tools. For their use. And the rage at you not mummying their needs and daring to have a life of your own that does not revolve around their inner selves blows their capacity apart.
I'm afraid the answer to that is not to be kind or sympathetic or compassionate - because God knows those males have none of that to offer to anyone else. The answer is that those male people are going to have to get over themselves and live with the idea that other people have needs too and the whole world cannot revolve 24/7 around them. And that wishing to prevent people having their needs met at all in order to be satisfied that you have the most, and more and are more important and special than anyone else, is something most three year olds have figured out is inappropriate.
Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2022 13:01
Third spaces/gender neutral spaces/additional categories have been suggested umpteen times on this board. The question I see most asked by people new to this board is 'why can't 3rd spaces be created?'
Again and again we are told by TRA's it is transphobic.
Again and again we are told it's othering.
A Google search of Mumsnet third spaces will bring up countless threads discussing it.
And as pp have said, why haven't Stonewall et al been fighting for this?
And as pp have said, why it is women's job to fight for this?
I would have previously been quite happy to support and fundraise for such spaces etc but now? After the all out attack on women's spaces/categories etc? No.
TheKeatingFive · 11/11/2022 22:11
Trans women are women but
They're not though
The whole house of cards is based on a lie. Sex matters. No amount of 'identifying as' trumps biological fact.
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