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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

I have been recorded by my local police force as 'hateful'

187 replies

Spero · 31/07/2020 09:15

Dear All

I am posting here in case I 'disappear' from Twitter. I set out the background here if you want to read more.
twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1289109245280100353?s=20

In a nutshell I made a Subject Access Request of Wiltshire police after a Twitter account boasted I now had a 'record for life' of my 'hate'. The police disclosed to me 12 pages of screenshots that were not hateful in the least; they were mainly discussions about the GC debate that have been confirmed as protected political speech.

I have requested this is deleted; the Information Management Team at Wiltshire have declined so I will go through their appeal process, eventually to the PCC and then judicial review.

I am writing to urge ANYONE who publishes on line about gender ID etc in their own name or is otherwise readily identifiable, to make a SAR of you own force to see what is recorded against you; you will not be told.

If there are others in the same position as me it might be sensible to consider joining forces in some kind of class action.

hopefully I will know by the autumn if I am going for JR.

OP posts:
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Silencia · 01/08/2020 00:41

So potentially, someone who was the victim of domestic abuse could have their email/social media accounts hacked (happened to me, can't prove who did it. Didn't discover the breech till 6+ months later, strangely coinciding with the anniversary of my PTSD trauma) ...

and then those accounts could be used to post hate speech, then reported by the abuser or their friends before deleting it. And the account owner would never know until somewhere down the line when they lost the job/opportunity/were considered an unfit parent in court/it was used to support the abuser's narrative of events/suddenly everyone hated them. And even then they would have basically no recourse to correct this information. (I really hope this didn't occur to my hacker, but meanwhile the domestic abuse flags on our address didn't stop my Ex getting an enhanced disclosure to volunteer with very vulnerable people, and at least some people I considered friends definitely seem to think I am all sorts of horrible things now for no reason I am aware of.)

Good luck Sarah - I really hope I am misunderstanding this one. :/

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 23:52

Oh so it’s the PND that holds non-conviction data? Thanks, I was never aware of that distinction.

This “hate incident” business does make one wonder about the integrity and reliability of all non-conviction police records. I wonder if anyone is actively worried about it?

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DazedWifelet · 31/07/2020 23:26

@ArriettyJones Enhanced DBS combines data from
PNC and PND (Police National Database) which came about after the Soham Murders enquiry. PND is a central store for intelligence gathered by forces. There is current programme at the Home Office to combine the two datasets into one, clearly referenced to distinguish evidential data from intelligence data.

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 23:19

I can’t believe I never thought specifically about where this data was held before. It’s potentially a kind of police-originated libel and is quite probably being held in multiple databases.

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 23:13

[quote DazedWifelet]@ArriettyJones No, DBS looks at PNC data only not a forces's own systems. PNC is a fact based system that can be used for evidential purposes in court.[/quote]
So where does the non-conviction information on an enhanced DBS come from? The whole system was inspired by Huntley, who had no convictions before Soham. Where is the “soft” intelligence held?

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DazedWifelet · 31/07/2020 23:11

@ArriettyJones No, DBS looks at PNC data only not a forces's own systems. PNC is a fact based system that can be used for evidential purposes in court.

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BatShite · 31/07/2020 23:07

People wonder why many women are anon online. Besided the multitude of threats levelled at you for daring to believe in sex, the doxxing, the harassment, there is this kind of nonsense threat also.

'Hate incidents' guidance seems ridiculous, especially if theres no way to actually fight it and its totally based on 'perception'. I could in theory take huge offense to someone saying they are eating a banana, as I am allergic, and report that they knew bananas are dangerous to me and said it specifically to upset me and its caused me stess..etc. And they would have this marked as a hate incident? (I know a protected characteristic needs to be invilved though, though oddly, not including sex..again, but..theoretically)

I understand the need for hate crimes guidance. I am kind of..50/50 on it mind, especially given, again sex is not included. But this hate incident nonsense? Just..playground shite seemingly.

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VaggieMight · 31/07/2020 22:58

The police are clearly busy with lots of recordings of perceived hate that are not actually hate, yet rape is essentially decriminalised. Ok.

Yes, and attacks on women, because of their biological sex, are not even classed as hate crimes.

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ChattyLion · 31/07/2020 22:48

Spero wishing you all the best with this. Thanks for pursuing this on behalf of women. Flowers

Maybe this whole area can be something for the Law commission to think about when they look at hate crime and the protected characteristic of sex? And the knock on effects around hate crime..

www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/hate-crime/

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JellyFishSquish · 31/07/2020 22:40

The police are clearly busy with lots of recordings of perceived hate that are not actually hate, yet rape is essentially decriminalised. Ok.

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CatandtheFiddle · 31/07/2020 21:23

Good Lord @Spero that is scary - George Orwell was a journalist of the future - 1984 was about 1948 Stalinist Russia ... and clearly TRA-hypnotised UK in 2020.

Good luck!

Your Twitter feed is ace - balanced & informative.

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BoreOfWhabylon · 31/07/2020 21:16

You throw out unsubstantiated allegations, personally attack Spero and I'm the one table-thumping?

You've made your point all right, but I don't think it's the one you think it is.

Muting you now.

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QueenCoconut · 31/07/2020 21:02

I can just see you thumping the table in satisfaction.
Point made.

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BoreOfWhabylon · 31/07/2020 20:51

Ah. Unsubstantiated allegations then.

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QueenCoconut · 31/07/2020 20:40

My post above was to show the previous poster that she’s not alone with her critical view of the OP ( although I do disagree with the use of offensive language).

I’m not going to attempt and debate with you Bore over what is and what isn’t intolerant in my opinion as I know it will only upset me.
Trying to talk about trans issues within this group is like being a person from a BAME background attempting to explain to a group of racists why they feel discriminated against. You’d never win would you?

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BoreOfWhabylon · 31/07/2020 20:28

Intolerant of whom, @QueenCoconut?

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QueenCoconut · 31/07/2020 20:23

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JackiesArmy · 31/07/2020 20:18

Yes, I'm sure she knows, and from what I've seen she takes a moral stand to protect the most vulnerable.

If you have evidence to the contrary (even one instance) I would love to see it. If you don't post any actual facts, then I'll continue to believe that you are taking this personally, which (in my experience) is often interesting.

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MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 20:14

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 20:12

Oh that’s interesting. So the DBS draws from both?

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DazedWifelet · 31/07/2020 20:11

@ArriettyJones I think it's only recorded on PNC if you are charged with a recordable offence (as per the relevant Act). Most likely this would be on a force's own database.

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JackiesArmy · 31/07/2020 20:07

I've seen many family court cases where she has supported abused children. Unless of course you are one of the "forced adoption" lot who are completely bonkers

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ArriettyJones · 31/07/2020 20:07

You can keep blessing everyone who objects @MamaLion1319 but you still look abusive and irrational.

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DazedWifelet · 31/07/2020 20:05

We are living in 1984. It's scary!

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MamaLion1319 · 31/07/2020 20:04

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