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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Maya Forstater court case

999 replies

Bardonnay · 14/11/2019 06:14

Sorry to link to the DM but they've covered Maya Forstater's upcoming court case here:
https://mol.im/a/7683207.

Maya's account of events is here and her post links to updates about the case: https://medium.com/@MForstater/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-up-about-womens-rights-2af2186ae84

OP posts:
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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 19/11/2019 16:46

You’ve a beautiful healthy baby!
Is it a boy or a girl?
Hang on... ummm, not sure, could be... if you wait a few years they will tell you themselves...

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HannaSkye · 19/11/2019 16:53

You have all forgot the miracle that a baby even exists at all when there is just no way to know how to make them in the first place!

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Waterl00 · 19/11/2019 16:57

The proposal to remove sex from birth certificates is in the UCU trans rights documents. It's not being done for anyone other than trans identifiers. It has no other purpose and its entirely led and driven by trans academics and supporters.

They are not supporting this for the benefit anyone else. They will deny it has any negative impact on anyone else. They are unable to articulate any benefits for anyone else.

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Thinkingabout1t · 19/11/2019 17:25

Good luck, Maya! You're doing this for all of us.

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RaininSummer · 19/11/2019 17:48

The assigning sex thing really melts my brain. If sex could be assigned then India and China, for example, would not need to chuck baby girls on rubbish heaps. They could have as many boys as they wanted.

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EsmeShelby · 19/11/2019 17:56

This is hideous. I have lost all tolerance for this shit.

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MadamBatty · 19/11/2019 18:26

Think how different English history would have been if Henry eighth had been able to assign his daughters male.

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bd67th · 19/11/2019 18:44

Or if Catherine of Aragorn could have transitioned to become a man, she might have annulled her marriage herself and kept her head. Or Mary Queen of Scots who was raped, fell pregnant, and married her rapist as the least worst of two terrible options.

There are things that we have in common because of our sex, regardless of race and wealth.

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bd67th · 19/11/2019 18:54

I mean MQoD would not have been raped if she'd self-ided as a man, right? Right? Oh wait, transmen are vaginally raped...

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MichaelMumsnet · 19/11/2019 19:21

Hi all,
You've probably noticed that we're going through the posts on this thread to tidy up references to witnesses by name etc.

There are general reporting restrictions around cases like this and - although we're not completely clear on what can and can't be said as yet - we think it would be sensible to refer to participants by initials only.

We might even temporarily suspend the thread overnight just to be sure that it's squeaky clean.

Of course you can all still post about the issues raised by this case, but it seems wise to err on the side of caution with regards to identifying those involved.

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OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 19/11/2019 19:40

@MichaelMumsnet this is a public hearing and there are no specific reporting restrictions around identification of the witnesses. The judge also ruled at the outset that live tweeting was acceptable.

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theflushedzebra · 19/11/2019 19:45

MichaelMumsnet I'd just like to reiterate what Tit says, there are no reporting restrictions on this tribunal, as per the Judge. He allowed live-tweeting from the courtroom and quoted "open justice" as being paramount.

It would be extremely unfair to restrict access to this thread - when the Judge has said the above.

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theflushedzebra · 19/11/2019 19:47

But I've no doubt our "monitors" are over here reporting it all. How very sad for them. This info is in the public domain, and the Judge has ruled it public.

The witnesses have not been given anonymity - this is a matter of public interest.

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Butterisbest · 19/11/2019 19:53

Bed67th
Catherine of Aragon wasn't beheaded, her marriage was annulled so that the English court could keep her dowry.
If she had self identified as a man then she could have kept all her money and seen off Henry the Eighth
Divorced Catherine of Aragon
Beheaded Ann Boleyn
Died Jane Seymour
Divorced Anne of Cleves
Beheaded Katherine Howard
Survived Catherine Parr
Useful in a quiz information

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Michelleoftheresistance · 19/11/2019 19:55

Rather pointed of the whole point of this case that there are people busy making HQ dance to try and silence as much of it as possible. What on earth for? Not talking about it really doesn't make it go away.

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AutumnCrow · 19/11/2019 20:04

Annulled murdered died annulled murdered survived, I've seen it written as, @Butterisbest

And yes all the hearing has been open and public, @MichaelMumsnet - it has been live tweeted for three days I think

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OvaHere · 19/11/2019 20:04

@MichaelMumsnet this is not a criminal case, there are no reporting restrictions and all participants are a matter of public record and have been reported on in the MSM.

This makes your actions look heavy handed and agenda driven.

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EmpressLesbianInChair · 19/11/2019 20:05

But I've no doubt our "monitors" are over here reporting it all.

I think it’s probably worth repeating for MNHQ that references to the monitors are not references to transpeople or men or any specific class of people, but purely to the people who have openly expressed their intention to keep close track of the FWR threads & report all the posts they don’t like.

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Birdsfoottrefoil · 19/11/2019 20:12

@MNHQ why are you falsifying the record of contemporaneous tweets that have been specifically allowed by a judge in the interest of open justice?

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PygmyHippoBob · 19/11/2019 20:14

@MichaelMumsnet
Your 'tidying up' has made my posts from the tribunal unreadable. 'C' is the initial used for the Claimant in legal proceedings. It therefore looks from my posts like it is Maya 'speaking' rather than Clair Quentin.
I was at the tribunal when the Respondent employer's counsel asked for restrictions on live-posting from non-journalists. The Respondent's counsel claimed that the Respondent's witnesses were particularly vulnerable although when the judge asked she put forward no ground to substantiate this. The judge refused the Respondent's request and made it clear that members of the public could live-post. The witness statements with the witnesses' full names were available for members of the public at the tribunal to read.
I'm posting this on both threads.

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pombear · 19/11/2019 20:26

Shhh - stop spreading sunlight on this! Dangerous to let people see what's really going on?

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pombear · 19/11/2019 20:29

Live tweeting was very much allowed. Someone else here doesn't want the information to get out

Have you considered who that might be, who is manipulating your site for those purposes?

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TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 19/11/2019 20:32

@MNHQ the Times and Telegraph have already named Maya Forstater, her employer, both barristers, and all witnesses except the last (and that omission is likely to be more an issue of filing deadlines than any privacy issue). There seems to be little point in you wasting your time removing references to anyone other than, possibly, the last witness.

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MichaelMumsnet · 20/11/2019 10:34

[update] This thread has had all names reinstated. Thanks for bearing with us.
Here's a link to the second thread (continuing the discussion from this one).

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