If you choose not to drive you are a pain in the arse

[Ophir]

Always lifts, always expecting basically chauffeured

Bog off.
I don't expect lifts from anyone. I take public transport.
The only time I need a lift is if someone else wants me to go somewhere remote. I never choose to go to those places.

"People tell me they don’t need to drive as they live in a city, but then there’s the trips to hospitals"

I take public transport to the hospital!
If you have an operation, public transport may not be allowed, but you can go in a taxi if someone accompanies you. You don't HAVE to go by car.

I also walk to the shops for food. You don't HAVE to do click and collect.

It absolutely would. Also for someone who couldn’t walk far, wasn’t very strong or didn’t have any buses going in the right direction. As I said in my post, I know I’m lucky and I would use the council’s service for something I couldn’t dispose of myself.

As for the dump, I've been once in my life and needed a van anyway so couldn't have done it myself even if I did drive.
Where I live now there are free collections every now and then.

Well most drivers aren’t going to behave like that are they? So even if it’s only two people behaving like it the odds are they are both non-drivers.

I used to live in Switzerland. Their public transport is fantastic.

The best way to kill any innovation in England is to point out how well it works in a foreign country.

You've clearly misunderstood. I said of the non-drivers I know more are like this than not. I said nothing about drivers.

Do you want to meet your friends or make a point?

My city has free bulk rubbish collections. We also have a free bus that takes you to various points in the city centre one of the stops being the major hospital. There is also a hospital hopper bus which goes to all 3 city hospitals. So I don't need a lift to any hospital appointments or to the tip.

Rage bait.

People tell me they don’t need to drive as they live in a city, but then there’s the trips to hospitals, or the tip, or to collect something from big Tesco or whatever, never mind pick ups for outings or holidays

The hospital one is difficult because sometimes you can't take public transport afterwards and have to be collected by someone else or you'd need to get a taxi, it depends on what it's for. And even if you can drive, you might not be allowed to - I had a couple of eye appointments and an operation a couple of years ago and I wasn't allowed to drive and after the operation I had to state who would be picking me up because I wasn't allowed to go home alone. That meant I had to ask a friend to pick me up.

People I’ve known don’t necessarily ask for lifts, but bombard me with details of the epic journeys so it ends up I just pick them up to make it stop, or because they can’t manage the heavy items on the bus

Just ignore them. Why are you even entertaining this? They can get large items delivered, they can pay to have rubbish collected etc.
So what if they "bombard" you with details. Don't offer and eventually they will stop.

What are these outings and holidays they need picking up for? Are you arranging them? I don't like your attitude in another post about not wanting to make activities "inclusive" for people without cars. If you want them to get there by themselves and you want them to go then you should choose somewhere they can get to by public transport otherwise you can't turn round and start complaining later on that they need a lift! You can't have it all ways.
If they are arranging them in out of the way places and expecting you to take them, then you need to use your words and tell them you are fed up with being used as a free taxi service!!

I can't decide whether you are being a bit of a wet lettuce or whether you're being deliberately goady.

Stop tarring all non-drivers with the same brush and if you don't like the people in your life using you as a taxi tell them you aren't doing it any more.

I don’t think the government needs any extra motivation or incentive to make things worse than other countries. They just do it because they can. When was the last time a government actually took pride in this country they govern? They treat each task as an enormous inconvenience and imposition on their time, as if their job is purely filling out expense forms. In fact, we could look at the government as the driver and everyone else as their pita non-driver family member imposing on them. 😂

When non-drivers are a pain, I find it's rarely just with driving.

It's like the toupee fallacy, you know the ones that are a pain because it's obvious, but the ones that aren't go unnoticed.

And there’s no reciprocity for nights out, airport drop off, or things like click and collect or hospital appointments.

Reciprocity does not need to mean helping each other with the exact same thing.

I've been the person to organise a night out and then to organise and pay for others' taxis at the end of the night when they've asked, and then I've walked home. I've a strong fear of being in taxis by myself at night and I don't drink so they can't reciprocate that exactly. Instead, they'll pick up lunch or something else. It all flows in good relationships.

It's when it's not flowing that there is a problem, and that's rarely only in not driving.

Why on earth should I make “inclusive plans” for another adult to get themselves somewhere?

Because you care about them?

I always ensured when meeting up with my husband's family that my MIL would be able to access it comfortably and had vegetarian food options beyond chips.

In the last few years of his life, when meeting with my FIL, I made sure the place was dog friendly as he went no where without his dog even though I'm not a dog person.

I live near areas that flood regularly, and it's well known the issues for drivers with a high car can handle the levels we get most of the time, and those with low cars that can't. When the floods happen, things are arranged accordingly - and as someone who doesn't live in a flood area, I tend to be first on call to help at work and cover for those who may not be able to get in.

As in, use public transport on your wedding day?

I did this, and it's a fond memory of mine. Not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but there's nowt wrong with it.

I think people who behave in an entitled way about getting lifts would be entitled about something else if lifts weren’t an issue, it’s a personality trait. If you’re not an entitled person by nature you're not going to turn into an entitled brat just because you don’t have a licence. It’s just manifesting what you already have that way. I bet the ones with the entitled mothers and MiLs have other character issues with them too.

I gave up driving several years ago, I never ask people for lifts. I have had people offer me lifts and then get offended when I refuse because I would rather walk or cycle.

Next time someone gives you the minutiae of their journey just respond ….

”if only you could drive, it would be so much easier”

I don’t care if people choose not to drive.

I do care if they want me to give them lifts though.

What I would say is that if (and I do mean if - I'm not being pushy, if you manage happily without driving then that's genuinely great) any former nervous learners wanted to give it another go, my tips would be: 1) learn in an automatic (theyre pretty much ubiquitous these days and there's no real need to drive a manual) and 2) find a chilled out, blase instructor who doesn't compound your anxiety. Doing those two things was what enabled me to get driving.

Yes. Meet them. Not take them!

As apparently they can get round just fine without lifts

*except to some places

Yes. This is my point

I can’t drive because I am chronically ill..not my fault if that makes me a pain in the arse.

For something small like a microwave it is easy for me because I go past the recycling centre on the way to the supermarket, so it adds on about 3 minutes to my journey.

I guess non-drivers who are always getting ferried about are unlikely to come on here and admit it, so the responses are skewed

This is specifically not what I’m talking about

Not being able to drive because of age or a medical condition is completely different