If you choose not to drive you are a pain in the arse

[Ophir]

Always lifts, always expecting basically chauffeured

I assume the dumb remarks which began ths thread include those of us who are unfit or unable to drive for medical reasons! There is a whole list of conditions (both physical and neurological) which can render a person unfit to drive by affecting their ability to control a vehicle, maintain concentration, or react safely to hazards. If I need to go somewhere there are these things called taxis, trains, buses etc.

Absolutely. I'd love to see more investment in safe, cheap and clean public transport, with consideration for the disabled/less mobile when it comes to drop-off points. There is no point in dropping people off on the outskirts if they can't easily walk to where they need to be in the centre of town.

If you're not driving for medical reasons, you're not who OP means. OP is talking about people who are capable of driving but choose to rely on other people instead.

I had a woman I took to a social group every month because she wasn't allowed to drive for medical reasons. I was more than happy to help her out and take her. It wasn't much out of my way and I was going there anyway. It's good to be able to do that sort of thing and I doubt most people would mind at all.

I only mind if someone's choosing not to drive means I have to put a lot more work into the relationship and getting together. It can feel very one sided if they just don't want to make the effort but leave it all with me.

You sound like a lovely and kind person. I really envy people who actually enjoy driving, it must be marvellous to be able to get into a car with no sense of dread or apprehension and drive wherever you like.

I could never do that. Even if by some miracle I managed to pass a driving test (and it would be a miracle based on the years I spend unsuccessfully trying to get to the stage of putting in for a driving test when I was younger) I don't think I'd ever reach the stage where I could just drive somewhere without really having to think about it.

I base that on the fact that I get quite nervous even as a passenger unless I can wangle to sit in the back seat so I don't see the road. I'm always scared that an accident is about to happen because I can't judge what's safe and what isn't when emerging from a junction or going onto a roundabout (unless it's one with traffic lights that clearly tell you when you have to go or stop) and overtaking/changing lanes on a motorway, anything other than driving in a straight line on a quiet road, really scares me. And that's with someone competent at the wheel!

DD can't drive for medical reasons. She chose cities with good public transport for undergrad and post grad universities, and will look for work in cities with good public transport when she graduates.

it's the lack of comprehension from city dwellers who simply can't envisage what living out in the sticks is like without a car, and from drivers who have never lived in London with its excellent public transport.

I have lived in Greater London (as it was called then) and out in the sticks, so I can see both sides.

No, if you are someone who expects lifts and to be chauffered about you are a pita. If you are someone who doesn't drive and is happy to make your own way to places or accept that there are some places you can't reasonably access that's not the same at all. If you are someone who gets all arsey when someone explains to you that they can't get to a place you want them to go to with you so won't be going, you are the pita. It's not very complicated!

Driving is a skill and like all skills not everyone can do it, there are a few drivers I know who would be doing the world a favour by giving up and not for just age! MN seems to think that everyone should be able to drive but they don't apply that to other skills, eg brain surgery.

I’m glad there are a proportion of people who live in areas without good public transport and still don’t drive. Realistically speaking, there will be a reason as to why they don’t have a licence, or do but don’t use it.
Self awareness is what keeps society marginally safer because it removes some of the people who know they struggle.

This also goes for people who drive in certain places/ conditions and not in others.

It annoys me when people have a go at drivers who don’t drive on the motorway or at night. They know their limits and by sticking to them they are making the roads safer for everyone.
Some people will always put themselves above society, so would never limit their own freedom, to travel long distances quickly, or stay out late at night with their car for example, so they ignore the fact that they objectively are not good drivers in these circumstances. Same goes for old people who continue to drive when it would be much better for everyone else if they didn’t.

The fact that women do this more than men is not a reason to push for it to change. It’s toxic male culture which prevents men who are aware of their limits to admit that they are actually shit drivers and perhaps would be better for everyone if they had a lift or took public transport instead.

Selly Oak Sainsburys is 10 metres above any bus stop that serves it. Try getting up that in a manual wheelchair (and it's not picnic for someone pushing).

The landowners explicitly refused to allow the buses to drive through the estate to provide level access. (I know this after a many month FOI chase ....)

The park was built less than 10 years ago.

On the rare occasion the less able are considered, it's invariably an afterthought.

This.

My eye disease means I really can't see clearly at night, the headlights and streetlights all have overlapping halos. Plus I can't judge distances so parking is very difficult. I gave up driving a couple of years ago and now catch the bus to work and walk to the shops or have things delivered.

I never ask for or expect lifts. And actually refuse politely if anyone offers.

That sounds tough, maybe having some lessons again just focusing on building confidence could help ? You would have the instructor with you, she would have dual control, you could tackle the things that worry you the most in a more supported way.
Driving is scary, it can be easy to lose confidence.
Re the OP- People don’t drive for many reasons, it’s not usually a choice to just be ferried around! My friend took four goes before she passed her test, it took her a couple of years. I left it late to learn as I was really frightened of driving. I have another friend who has never driven, she has always lived in cities and can’t afford a car so she walks or uses public transport. When I lived in a city I cycled or used public transport, it was unnecessary to have a car.
My elderly aunt has never driven, and couldn’t do it now, she was anxious about driving and generally walked places as she lives in a small town that is easy to navigate without a car.
There are a lot of elderly people who need to stop driving for health reasons, and younger people can have reasons physically or emotionally that stop them driving.
Of course some people can become very reliant on family or friends for lifts, but I have never known anyone do this. The non drivers I know are very self reliant, and usually live in places where it’s easier not to have a car.

On the plus side, I think autonomous cars are probably going to be a reality sooner rather than later. We'll have to wait for a critical mass of people to build whose first instinct is not "it's all about me"..

You sound like me. I did eventually pass but me and driving just never gelled. I gave up a long time ago but on the occasions I am in someone’s car (not very often) I still can’t get out the habit of visualising I’m the one driving to see what I would do and I often realise I wouldn’t have a clue how to read so many road situations. My brain just doesn’t seem to be wired in a way that can process all the different road situations that can happen. Even when walking down my road cars often have to reverse because there’s not enough room to pass each other, and that would stress me out.

I was watching someone on Youtube recently, I think he was a westerner living in China. His car stopped and he got out and started chatting, then said it was a driverless car. The car then drove off! I was pretty impressed. I didn’t know China was using them.

I agree SOME people are definitely a PITA who don’t drive. Play dates for example, you’re left doing all the dropping off and collecting.

Same. I can definitely count on my fingers the number of times I have asked anyone to go out of their way to drive me somewhere. I find it baffling to see how reluctant so many drivers are to use public transport (even those who don't have to pay for it)

I find it baffling to see how reluctant so many drivers are to use public transport

Not this driver. When DD lived in Newcastle I loved using the metro. It was so easy to get into and out of town.

I agree with OP. It's alright so many posters saying they don't drive and don't expect lifts, but there are also lots of people who take the piss and do just expect other people to chauffer them around.

Two cases in point. My mother in law and my first boyfriend (aged 22!). MIL could have learned to drive at many points in her life - she just couldn't be arsed and never even tried. My own DM, 20 years older, learned to drive in her 20's! FIL ferried her around all their married life, and when he became ill and then died, she was constantly playing the emotional blackmail card to get us to drive her around, even for relatively short/easy journeys she could have got a bus, or even walked (she was fit and healthy). She'd just got accustomed to being driven around everywhere. It meant she had a very limited life in her retired years as neither of us could be her chauffer as we both worked during the day. She really begrudged having to pay for taxis to hospital appointments etc and constantly winged at us about it, despite us taking her shopping, days out, GP appointments, etc.

At first, I didn't think it mattered that my first boyfriend didn't drive, but it soon drove a wedge between us, not that he didn't drive, but that he just "expected" me to ferry him around all the time, even on very easy/convenience trips he could have done by bus. I.e. when we first started going out, he'd come to mine on the bus and go home on the bus at the end of the evening. We'd walk from my home to pubs etc. Then "scope creep" set in. He started wanted to go to more distant/varied pubs, so I drove, meaning I couldn't drink. Then of course, because I hadn't drunk, he thought it was OK for me to take him home rather than him get the bus. Then the scope creep continued, with him suggesting pubs at his end of time, and for me to pick him up on the way! Soon, I was picking him up, dropping him off and driving round the pubs! Same with days out, etc., at first, we'd do local/easy things that we could walk to (seaside), or the local leisure centre, or things easy to get to by bus/train etc. Then, scope creep again, and he started getting bored with local/easy things to do and wanted to go further afield, of course meaning a car journey with muggins here driving! It was when he suggested I start picking him up from work that I started to get annoyed. Then, one day, we knew there was a bus strike the next day and he asked me to pick him up and take him to work the next day! That's when I'd had enough and told him in no uncertain terms that if he wanted to continue going out with me, he either had to sort himself out, getting back to buses etc., or start to learn to drive himself! He wasn't willing to do either, so he got ditched. Next boyfriend (who I've been married to for 30 years) drove and had his own car and we shared trips out, shared which one of us drove on pub nights etc - it was a lot better having an equal relationship.

So, unfortunately, "some" people are entitled and do rely on others to ferry them around, even when they're perfectly capable of learning to drive themselves, finance a car, etc. But then again, there are entitle "takers" in all walks of life, happy to leech off others.

Yes, that's exactly it - the way the brain is wired. Mine isn't wired to translate my surroundings into my movements for some reason. I'm not even great at crossing the road as a pedestrian, I tend to wait if possible till there are no cars in sight because I worry about misjudging their driving speed vs my walking pace.

I'm extremely uncoordinated - I can't do things like 'formal' types of dancing where steps are involved at all, or follow things like exercise classes on the rare occasions I have attempted it.

My handwriting is not very legible, even to myself, in its natural form, although I can do all sorts of different fancy handwritings, and I can write with either hand and do mirror writing with either hand if I make a conscious effort to.

Conceivably if I was in some situation where I could spend 8 hours a day, every day, for something like a year being taught by an extremely patient, skilled, laid back and sympathetic driving instructor, I might be able to 'learn' driving well enough to get through a test eventually but that's not a realistic proposition and even if that happened, I can't see myself ever not being nervous and jumpy as a driver.

Once a week with an instructor and weekend sessions with my unfortunate dad tearing his hair out for two years when I was in my 20s sadly left me little better than where I had started, and the only end result was to make me more nervous as a passenger because I then started spotting potential hazards everywhere, whereas before that I had at least been in fairly blissful ignorance.

They aren't perfect yet. But probably better than 80% of the drivers here.

The bigger obstacle will be peoples sense they need to "own" a car. If you look at history, as so many don't, you will know that the era of access to private transport we currently enjoy is an anomaly. For more that 99% of our recorded history if you wanted to go somewhere you walked or shared.

I can see a future where autonomous cars are introduced in urban areas - which are easier to tweak for them - before going nationwide.

Bringing autonomous and electric cars into one will be the magic moment. A car that can drive itself can drive itself to an off street charging point. No need to clutter up roads and houses ....

We sound very similar.😁 I can struggle to cross roads as my perception is not always accurate. It used to drive my kids mad as they said I would needlessly panic 😳. I can’t follow the simplest choreography, really struggled with fitness videos back in the day. My handwriting is the least consistent of anyone I know, I can’t even keep to one style in the same sentence 🤦‍♀️ I wish I had been able to take driving in my stride and envied people who could. Now I couldn’t afford to buy or run a car even if I wanted, but I really don’t need one anyway, it would be parked gathering dust. Everything I need is a walk or train journey away.

I wanted to recycle my broken microwave last weekend & that meant putting it in an Ikea bag, catching a bus & carrying it the last half mile or so to the nearest recycling point.

I’m lucky to have those facilities & to be physically capable. If I’d wanted to dispose of bulky waste that I couldn’t carry I’d have used the local council’s collection service & paid for it.

Even if I drove I would rather pay a handyman to take bulk or numerous items to a dump. On the few occasions I’ve been to one they are not how I want to spend my time (and the car journey to it is not great, very heavy traffic and what looked to me like a quite complicated journey). I’ve had someone come to my house, get the stuff, load his van and off he pootled.

I do know one person who refuses to even consider learning to drive. They just expect everyone around them to take responsibility for them getting from A to B. Start cracking up when they don’t have a lift to and from work etc. It’s absolutely infuriating.

Most people aren’t like that though. DP drives but when he lived in a city, he really didn’t need to. We live in a rural area now. Although the public transport links are reasonable enough, we would definitely struggle if we couldn’t drive.

That would be a challenge for someone in a wheelchair (assuming they could get a spot on the bus, and the recycling facilities were accessible).