Y6 SATs cancelled - implications for secondary?

[noblegiraffe]

I’ve just looked in the primary section and can’t see anything about this - obviously GCSEs and A-levels have taken priority in terms of information given. What is happening about Y6 SATs? I know that they’re not happening, but I’ve also heard that teachers aren’t going to be doing a teacher assessment? When there was the SATs boycott a few years ago, we had FFTs generated from teacher assessment.
Since then Progress 8 has been introduced.

A lot is based on KS2 SATs data, is this being discussed somewhere I’ve not seen?

[Hercwasonaroll]

Those are both great ideas.

I think a term of mixed ability Maths could work really well if implemented properly. I worry that it will be another term wasted for our weakest pupils. I also fear that we have a few second subject maths teachers who would struggle to differentiate very well. I am hopeful students might be back in y6 before the end of the year so we may be able to use that time.

[TubereuseNordlys]

Do you think herc, for your first term lessons could all be in tutor groups, then do your internal assessments? Would be a term of more extended differentiation for your teachers, I suppose.

As a Y6 teacher, I could tell you a fairly accurate prediction of what mine would get in the SATs - could you produce a spreadsheet to send to your feeder schools to fill in? One of our local secondaries has a bastard of a spreadsheet we have to fill in - it's the only school we don't meet a Y7 rep from (it's a big school - they'd never have the time).

[Hercwasonaroll]

Really interested in this.

We usually set from SATs and then using internal assessment data part way through the term.

No idea what we will do now. It'll be my job to decide.....

[courderoy]

We mainly use progress 8 as a measure of disadvantage gap. Really not sure what will happen

[Bflatmajorsharp]

Cuckoo my Y8 dc didn't receive her SATS results (whole year group annulled) and that did cause a problem with her being set very low targets.

Although the info sent from her primary was 'exceeding expectations' in maths, English and writing, this doesn't feed into progress 8 spreadsheets/flightpaths etc.

I spent Y7 parents evening explaining to each teacher why her target grades were so low and asking what I could do about this.

Eventually, they were amended in Y8 using the reading age assessment they did at the beginning of Y7.

Not a perfect tool, but better for my dc than having extremely low targets.

I also suspect there will be some sort of national test set at the beginning of the autumn term to generate data to 'show progress' with.

[Iamnotthe1]

She always had gcse predictions to so guess they were determine using another form of assessment

Schools are free to set their own internal targets however they wish. However, their actual targets come from FFT and are the measure by which the secondary school is held to account. This often means that it is the one that the secondary school pays the most attention to.

Any students who do not have ks2 sats data are excluded from the calculations.
I may be wrong about that

This is correct. Unfortunately, although it's something joked about, some schools do genuinely make decisions about additional support, "pushing on" groups, focus children, etc. based on these targets and so those without them can end up missing out because their progress doesn't contribute to the whole school's progress.

[CuckooCuckooClock]

I believe that when progress 8 is calculated (under normal circumstances) any students who do not have ks2 sats data are excluded from the calculations.
I may be wrong about that - does anyone know?
We’ve always joked that those students don’t count and there’s no point teaching them because we can’t use their data for our performance management!
Maybe we could just write off a year?

[CuckooCuckooClock]

It’s an interesting conundrum.
I don’t take much notice of sats for my teaching but the data is so extensively used for accountability. I can’t believe that they wouldn’t find another way to track this cohort.
I suspect if schools are back properly in September they will do some sort of external exams then. Poor kids

[Aragog]

Not all schools use SATs for setting so I guess those schools will continue with their normal setting procedures.

Dd didn't have SATs. Her primary didn't do them. Her friends who went into state schools all had gcse predications so it's definitely possible without. DD's independent secondary did their own internal tests to set children, and information from the primaries. She always had gcse predictions to so guess they were determine using another form of assessment during year 7.

[SE13Mummy]

My thoughts are purely speculation but if we reach a stage where partial reopening of schools is considered safe, I'm expecting Y10 and Y12 to be the first year groups back (because they're easy to keep apart and in an almost empty school it would be possible to spread them out and have teachers beamed into multiple classrooms). I wouldn't be surprised if Y6 attended their secondary schools for a couple of weeks, even if only for half days. It would ensure some sort of transition, they won't hang out with the older students and I reckon the DfE would quickly find an opportunity to get secondary schools to run some baseline tests a la KS2 tests or a nationally imposed CATS type thing. I just can't seeing the government being ok about not tracking the Y6 cohort through KS3/4.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

Thanks for this thread. I have a child in Y6 and had been vaguely wondering.

[Iamnotthe1]

The DfE have said that there will be no submitted teacher assessment for the current cohort of Year Six children.

FFT have invited schools to enter predicted data for these children based upon how we think they would have achieved but this is entirely optional. They have said that this will only be used for internal data and will used for external comparison nor for performance management and target setting.

Pure speculation but I think that this current cohort will have FFT targets for GCSE generated based upon their submitted data for Reception and Year Two and making the assumption that each child was "roughly" on track for their FFT target for Year Six. There are both positives and negatives to that.

[maddy68]

As a secondary teacher we would love not to have to regard the KS2 sats. Because they are naturally practiced for they aren't real grades, when they hit secondary , they all reach a lower grade due to the different nature of study. Every single subject is judged against them so eg. Computer science , when they've been assessed not in that subject. It causes all sorts of issues for secondary and restricts the curriculum in primary. Hopefully. They will scrap then now we have deemed them unnecessary.

[noblegiraffe]

What about Y2 SATs?

They are used to measure progress for primary schools between Y2 and Y6. They were going to be scrapped in the next couple of years anyway and replaced with a reception baseline assessment, which as far as I’m aware is still supposed to take place for Reception in September

[noblegiraffe]

They won’t have any FFTs.

Heads of Y11 will have empty intervention spreadsheets when the time comes.

[phlebasconsidered]

I usually meet with the HOY of year 7 and talk them through my data anyway. We all know that realistically some of the kids will be boosted through sats but naturally sit at wavering below. So I always talk about likely sets and needs and where the children will likely be in September and without the intensive help they get at primary. Particularly those without echp who nonetheless receive a lot of support and continuity in primary that they won't get in secondary ( simply through one teacher all day who is hyper aware of their needs rather than lots of teachers and 15 mins of tutor) Usually we do a lot of work with those pupils around transition and I am very worried about them this year.

I was a secondary teacher for years though and I know I never really took notice of the year 6 data . Honestly, the data is just a set point. Sometimes used to bash you with!! They will be tested on arrival anyway and for this year group, just as for our new year 6's in September, the expectations will surely be that everything has fallen out of their heads more than it normally does after Summer.

[KittenVsBox]

What about Y2 SATs? Do they feed into anything? (We were abroad for Y2, so dont have any).

[winterisstillcoming]

I wonder if they might make them sit them at the beginning of year 7. To get a baseline and to measure progress for GCSE.

[TheCheeseAlarm]

We have to complete a borough spreadsheet about the children in year 6. The information is collated centrally and then disseminated to the various secondary schools. I think there 12 different destinations for our year 6s this year. The information includes teacher assessment.

[Abreadsandwich]

I'm just a parent but did feel like SATS have been completely ignored which was surprising. I know that at DDs secondary school they have CAT tests and testing in each subject before they are set (in year 7 ) but obviously I don't know how things are worked out behind the scenes in schools.

[Muchtoomuchtodo]

Our secondary school doesn’t set in the first term of year 7 so it’s not going to make a huge difference.

[noblegiraffe]

All your Y6 go to the same secondary, Hedgehog? I can think of 5 different schools my DS’s classmates are headed for off the top of my head!

won’t be league tables in five year’s time

I’m not sure if that will be a good thing or a bad thing for current Y6.

[HedgehogHotel]

We have already had contact from the Head of the Secondary School my Year 6 will be attending next year; email arrived for the entire incoming class yesterday. She said they will be reaching out to the Year 6 teachers regarding each incoming student, she's been reading through the information books the students have each already sent back, and are actively looking for more ways to get to know their incoming class. She's also currently writing to each student individually based on what she has so far.

I'm sure they'll figure it out. I am in the primary school myself, and we will no doubt be liaising with the secondary to make sure they get what they need.

[MsJaneAusten]

*that

[MsJaneAusten]

The government will realise thus using SATs results as an indicator of progress in totally different skills/subjects is a load of rubbish, Progress 8 will be abolished and we’ll all live in a glorious world where pupils learn things because learning is good rather than to prove they’re learnt it.

Nah, there just won’t be league tables in five year’s time, is my prediction.