That's a bit bloody sexist, M&S!

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

Popped in earlier to collect an order, and the collection point is next to Menswear. On my way through I noticed they had some "Stormwear" jeans - water resistant ones. "What a good idea! I'll head down to womens wear next and see what styles they do them in."

The answer? None. At all. Loads of different styles of jeans, but no Stormwear ones. Checking the app reveals they actually only make them for men. Why? Do women not get wet in the rain? Do we just stay inside when it drizzles? Or are our menfolk supposed to gallantly be on hand to shelter us under their umbrella whenever it rains?

And before anyone says "well you you could just buy the mens ones", no I can't, because they don't come in a small enough size.

Why don't women get to have dry legs??!

[TwitTw00]

@Johnnysgirl

To allow men into the women's changing rooms?? In 2009? I don't believe it.

I can assure you it was. I did their graduate scheme and read every policy because there was no Internet access on the store computers in those days and I wanted something to do on quiet Sundays! There was even a coathanger policy.

[KirstenBlest]

The underwear adverts for women are shown on a woman in a pose, whereas the men's underpants are shown without someone in them

[Nekomata]

I hear you!

last year I bought a mens jacket for winter. It’s amazing, so warm, waterproof, fully lined and the pockets are deep and zippered.

[Precipice]

Surely in most jeans the "waist" measurement is actually the hip measurement? Unless they're very high rise.

[pictish]

But yes I agree with you in principle.

[pictish]

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal

Well it's good to know it doesn't sound like I'm actually missing out on much!

It's more the principal of it that wound me up though. I don't even particularly want waterproof trousers, it's just we have a dog now, and he'll need to be walked even in wet weather, so I thought they be useful. But according to M&S I have no need for dry legs.

Honestly? Buy a pair of waterproof over trousers. On at the door, off at the door. Dry legs. Or even a pair of hiking trousers to walk the dog in.

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

Well it's good to know it doesn't sound like I'm actually missing out on much!

It's more the principal of it that wound me up though. I don't even particularly want waterproof trousers, it's just we have a dog now, and he'll need to be walked even in wet weather, so I thought they be useful. But according to M&S I have no need for dry legs.

[User478]

M&S are awful.

You can stormproof your own jeans. Wash them with nikwax www.nikwax.com/en-gb/products/waterproofing/cotton-proof/

[pictish]

OP I hear and agree with you. It is sexist.

Recently went shopping at a specialist outdoor shop for a new mountain beanie. I have a small head so mens’ hats too big for me. Every womens’ hat had a fucking bobble. Every one. Anyone who has ever been in bad weather mountain conditions knows that a bobble under a waterproof hood will force the hat over your eyes. You need a hat that fits comfortably under a hood.
Well men do. Women need a pom pom.

[mandolinwind]

I bought some draw string men's cotton shorts from Matalan this summer for me. Really nice quality fabric, slim fit, well cut legs and huge side pockets with a button down pocket on the back:

www.matalan.co.uk/product/detail/s2886485_c419/khaki-cotton-stretch-drawcord-shorts-khaki

[LadyKenya]

@Precipice

Anyway, what I have noticed is that while so much of the women's section has been replaced by synthetic shit like polyester, men are still offered much more of 100% cotton.

I simply will not buy clothes made of such cheap, horrible material. If enough people did this, retailers would soon get the message.

[mandolinwind]

@Plexie

Misses point of thread to wonder how effective the shower proofing on the fabric is and how long it will last being washed. I suspect just a marketing gimmick.

"Stormwear" trousers are not shower or waterproof. Their "Stormwear" treated men's chinos end up feeling slightly greasy after they have been washed a few times and tend to wear badly on edges like the edge of zip fly plackets and leg hems.

[mandolinwind]

@Johnnysgirl

Isn't that like around size 6? And you reckon it's just the "normal human woman" size?
Anyone over a size 6 is outside the norm... 🤔. Do give over, ffs!

A waist size of 27" would have been around a size 12 before vanity dress sizing was introduced.

A size 10 M&S top or dress was to fit a bust 32"; a size 12 was bust 34" and a 14 was bust 36".

In my late 60s, I now measure 39" round the bust but I need to buy M&S Tee shirts in sizes 8 or 10 or they are far too big for me around the bust and shoulders. When I was 18, I was a bust 32"-34" and I fit a size 10 or 12 in M&S sizing.

I used to work for M&S as a Saturday girl and during college holidays, in the late 60s. There was no adult woman size 6 and rarely an adult size 8. Most of their women's clothes started at size 10 (32" bust). I've got vintage M&S skirts in my wardrobe, sizes 12 and 14 marked on the labels to fit waist 26" to 28".

For my height, I am quite big round the middle due to fibroids and my waist measures around 30"-31", though my hips are narrow. But I now take a size 12 in M&S jeans. A size 12 waist 30-50 years ago would have fit a 26"-28" waist. As women have got larger, clothes sizing has evolved and what would have been a sized 10 and 12 is now sold as a 6 and 8.

The same has happened to men's sizing. The men in my household used to buy M&S underwear in Medium and Small. Now the Medium is more like the former Large and the Small is more like Medium used to be. M&S no longer make underwear with a small enough waist size for my slim adult son who needs around a 31" to 32" waist.

[Plexie]

Misses point of thread to wonder how effective the shower proofing on the fabric is and how long it will last being washed. I suspect just a marketing gimmick.

[Branster]

27 waist is definitely not size 6.
And men's jeans don't often work in a woman's body!!!
Different fit.
And why should a woman make do in this way?!

[Moonatics]

On the pockets thing, I asked my son to put my phone in his pocket while we were clambering over felled trees and things. My phone absolutely disappeared into his back pocket, it sticks out of mine.
My old dressing gown was a mans ( I bought for a man who didnt want it so I used it) having recently bought a new womens dressing gown, the pockets are much much smaller. Frustrating.

On the m and s change rooms, yes they allow men in now. Have definitively for around three years, possibly longer. And having seen a person in the USA umm depositing fluids on the undergarments they tried and then replacing on the racks for unwitting women to potentially try on without noticing as a fetish is beyond my ability to not give a fuck. Having seen the many many men happily post wonderful reviews on m and s female underwear (not designed to hold a penis) rosie Huntington whiteley's collection had quite a lot, I can no longer without a blacklight shop instore for underwear.
Not particularly because I care about bodily fluids, I'm sure hundreds of women handled many pairs of knickers before I did, but because I'm an unwilling participant in the fetish.

[Sunbun19]

They know certain types of clothes branding will appeal to certain sexes, its all to do with sales and marketing. Retailers don't give two fucks about practical, functional clothing or being fair and equal, they just want to make money

[SwordToFlamethrower]

I remember Christmas a couple of years ago and in the window, male mannequins in suits and Christmas jumpers.

Female mannequins were all women in stocking and suspenders. There was a right kick off and rightly so.

M&S is sexist and woke. I avoid it like the plague these days

[SignOnTheWindow]

I agree OP. In 2002 I made a complaint to M and S that they only made non iron shirts for the men's section. Presumably because women love doing the fucking ironing.
Looks like nothing has changed in 20 years.

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

The point is they've made them for men but not for women. Why?

[Talipesmum]

Dead right OP - this is insidious “you’ll never have to go out in the rain, ladies, you’re too dainty for that” implications. None of these things are a big deal until you stack them up. And bah to all the “can’t you just wear the mens” - I’d wear plenty of “mens” clothes but jeans wouldn’t work, they’re too straight up and down.

[SimonaRazowska]

I am bored so I am really trying to get worked up about this, but I can’t

who buys outdoorsy clothes at MS anyway

there are loads of places that sell proper waterproof gear

for men and women

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

It's not just a brand name though. Whether they're effective or not, they're marketed as being water-resistant, and women don't get water-resistant jeans. Apparently we're supposed to just get wet.

[megosaurusrex]

I've found the baby clothes pretty sexist in there before. I was looking at the Mr Men/Little Miss range once - the boys clothes had slogans like "future world changer" etc, and the girl one (there was only one) had "smiling every day" 🙄 unsurprisingly they were all on sale. Very disappointing in these 'woke' times!

[hotdiggetydog]

It's just the name of the brand for men.

So this is a bit

"Alexa, what should I be offended by today"