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Relationships
Other women - feeling betrayed
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 11:33
Been with this guy for three years. In the main we’ve had an amazing relationship, but we have some differences when it comes to boundaries. At first he pretended to have the same boundaries that I have. He a couple of times accused me of liking other people and seemed to be quite insecure. I don’t experience physical attraction unless there are much deeper feelings there, and I was and still am, all in with this guy. He seemed to need a lot of reassurance, which I willingly gave him. Then recently it came out that he has told at least 5 women since we got together that “he would like to kiss them” “he would like to go somewhere and have sex with them” he says this was reciprocating what they had said to him, not initiated by him. His reasoning was he’s attracted to lots of females and wouldn’t want someone to feel unattractive or bad about themselves, but has never expressed emotional desire, and cut them off very swiftly. To me anything non platonic is cheating, I don’t get it. I explained actually it takes nothing to say you’re flattered without expressing some mutual desire, and why would he lie to me about boundary stuff for so long. I wrote him a letter about it so we wouldnt actually fight. He said when he read it thanks for expressing my feelings but he’ll still do this moving forward. So I ended it. So then I got a message saying instead he will say they look good but not reciprocate anything they say. I was too pissed off by this point and said I doubt it’s workable between us. After a couple of days I said look, I appreciate what you’ve said and if you truly mean it then let’s move forward with trust. His response was that I attack, that he can’t take my attacks, that he’s drained and I don’t trust him so it won’t work. Right now I’m just not responding to him. To be honest I feel pissed off he lied to me for so long and has had these conversations with others and he’s acting like some kind of victim. Was I wrong to question and assert these boundaries, would others here feel just fine with their partner saying these things to others? I won’t change my boundaries but just wondered! I said in my letter that I’d fully expect no mutual expression of desire and my feelings to come first and for me to be mentioned so these women don’t think they have some hold on him, that he’s happy and in love. He said no he wouldn’t do that, he wouldn’t want to make someone feel bad. Seems off to me. So since changing his mind, am I meant to understand he doesn’t really mean he’d change his way of speaking to them, seeing as he doesn’t seem to really want to work this out? Please just give opinions on your own relationships, what are your boundaries, is it an attack for me to have been emotional about this stuff and rigid in my perspective of it? Thanks
Thelnebriati · 19/03/2023 12:14
is it an attack for me to have been emotional about this stuff and rigid in my perspective of it?
No of course it isn't. Write out what happened as a timeline;
You asserted your boundaries (I want a monogamous relationship)
He agreed
He broke those boundaries and solicited other women
You challenged him
He declared you were attacking him
Its called DARVO - Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim And Offender.
Do you really think he is worth any more of your time and effort? Just decide the relationship is ended and don't respond to him any more.
LilLilLi · 19/03/2023 12:23
Why, when he told you that he wouldn’t stop, or that he would “just” say they looked good did you then approach him to continue the relationship? Your boundaries are not as strong as you think they are.
He has literally told you he won’t stop, he has shown who he is. Why waste your time?
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:26
I did write this out, and put it in my letter to him, it was actually over a year ago that he revealed he’s said stuff to other women, and so the last year I’ve felt distrust towards him but continued with him, but it’s been kind of eating away at me, and I’ve had less patience with him when he starts stupid arguments with me as a result. This is what I wrote in the letter. He likes fantasy stuff and I’m happy to do that, but pissed off when I asserted my boundaries, and wouldn’t really be comfortable giving him this sex fantasy stuff if I knew he was reciprocating other womens feelings, even if hI a said it’s gone no further. This is the timeline I wrote on my letter:
-Our first date, you said you used to want many women but not to worry you don’t want that anymore.
-Then big bust ups and break ups with you being jealous of thoughts of me liking another/others. Confusion for me as that wasn’t the reality.
-Then after that, sexual fantasy talk and inclusion of fantasy others, but you said not real life this is only fantasy.
-Then you said actually,
you like real life people walking down the street etc. but nobody has taken your fancy real life since me and you. I understood that, you’re a man.
-Then as time went on, You said you would tell someone else you want to sleep with them if they tried it on with you, but that you haven’t since we got together. This is where the true pain started for me. I actually got very depressed and sad inside.
-You said it’s ok and hypothetical, as you hadn’t fancied anyone else since we got together and this was all in the past before us. You started telling me past examples of women who tried it on with you prior to you and I, and how you didn’t give in.
-Then, a while after, you admitted you had in fact fancied several people the first year we got together, and reciprocated certain feelings when they’ve tried it with you. So it wasn’t hypothetical.
You said that it’s just being a real man, that you fancy 50 people that walk by in a day.
-It Made me wonder what more there was to it as you didn’t tell me the truth of this stuff as it played out, but told me the opposite until slowly it was revealed. Obviously this progression was confusing and a bit of a head mess for me. It made me anxious.
I prefer straight talking so my choices in continuing with you were based on facts.
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:31
I said it was over when he’d said he’d continue the way it was. I said it was probably unworkable when he said he wouldn’t mention kissing or sex to other women, that he would just say they look good but no, and leave it there. After thinking on it, I was happier with that than his previous way of doing things. Still don’t see any reason to tell another woman she looks good, but it’s certainly better than reciprocating lines she’s saying involving sex and kissing. It felt like he was respecting those boundaries more. Obviously in a perfect world I’d prefer it all my way, but I can’t give him a script to read, I just know my limits.
LilLilLi · 19/03/2023 12:33
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:31
I said it was over when he’d said he’d continue the way it was. I said it was probably unworkable when he said he wouldn’t mention kissing or sex to other women, that he would just say they look good but no, and leave it there. After thinking on it, I was happier with that than his previous way of doing things. Still don’t see any reason to tell another woman she looks good, but it’s certainly better than reciprocating lines she’s saying involving sex and kissing. It felt like he was respecting those boundaries more. Obviously in a perfect world I’d prefer it all my way, but I can’t give him a script to read, I just know my limits.
But OP, with kindness, you don’t know your limits.
You are moving your boundaries to suit him, and you are allowing him to disrespect you.
It is better to be single than to accept this treatment I promise.
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:34
I accept this man’s attraction to others in fantasy and do my best to give him the most amazing sex life he could imagine. I am open to all he wants to do, apart from I wouldn’t real life include others, but all the fantasy talk and images he wants, and I push aside my own insecurities to explore that with him, so I feel disrespected and pissed off. I have no interest in any other guy, and if I did, I would never show any interest in any other guy. It’s totally disrespectful and damaging as far as I’m concerned.
Ofcourseshecan · 19/03/2023 12:43
he has told at least 5 women since we got together that “he would like to kiss them” “he would like to go somewhere and have sex with them”.
😨!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he says this was reciprocating what they had said to him, not initiated by him
oh that’s all right then.
NOT!
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 12:54
Then recently it came out that he has told at least 5 women since we got together that “he would like to kiss them” “he would like to go somewhere and have sex with them” he says this was reciprocating what they had said to him, not initiated by him. His reasoning was he’s attracted to lots of females and wouldn’t want someone to feel unattractive or bad about themselves
😂😂😂
He tried to sell you this utter codswallop, yet you still say and I was and still am, all in with this guy ??
Why, in the name of all that's holy, are you accepting his drivel & disrespect?
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 12:56
I won’t change my boundaries but just wondered!
And he won't change his hobby of sleazing on any woman who will have him.
Which only leaves you one option.
Dump this worthless twat.
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 12:59
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:26
I did write this out, and put it in my letter to him, it was actually over a year ago that he revealed he’s said stuff to other women, and so the last year I’ve felt distrust towards him but continued with him, but it’s been kind of eating away at me, and I’ve had less patience with him when he starts stupid arguments with me as a result. This is what I wrote in the letter. He likes fantasy stuff and I’m happy to do that, but pissed off when I asserted my boundaries, and wouldn’t really be comfortable giving him this sex fantasy stuff if I knew he was reciprocating other womens feelings, even if hI a said it’s gone no further. This is the timeline I wrote on my letter:
-Our first date, you said you used to want many women but not to worry you don’t want that anymore.
-Then big bust ups and break ups with you being jealous of thoughts of me liking another/others. Confusion for me as that wasn’t the reality.
-Then after that, sexual fantasy talk and inclusion of fantasy others, but you said not real life this is only fantasy.
-Then you said actually,
you like real life people walking down the street etc. but nobody has taken your fancy real life since me and you. I understood that, you’re a man.
-Then as time went on, You said you would tell someone else you want to sleep with them if they tried it on with you, but that you haven’t since we got together. This is where the true pain started for me. I actually got very depressed and sad inside.
-You said it’s ok and hypothetical, as you hadn’t fancied anyone else since we got together and this was all in the past before us. You started telling me past examples of women who tried it on with you prior to you and I, and how you didn’t give in.
-Then, a while after, you admitted you had in fact fancied several people the first year we got together, and reciprocated certain feelings when they’ve tried it with you. So it wasn’t hypothetical.
You said that it’s just being a real man, that you fancy 50 people that walk by in a day.
-It Made me wonder what more there was to it as you didn’t tell me the truth of this stuff as it played out, but told me the opposite until slowly it was revealed. Obviously this progression was confusing and a bit of a head mess for me. It made me anxious.
I prefer straight talking so my choices in continuing with you were based on facts.
OP, stop twisitng yourself in knots trying to make any logical sense of him.
He is a gameplaying twat & he just LOVES playing with your head.
PP upthread correctly identified DARVO.
That's the kind of nasty bastard you are dealing with.
Do you want to spend the next howeverlong consumed with anxiety about his sleazy behaviour, & blamed for it?
www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 13:05
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 12:34
I accept this man’s attraction to others in fantasy and do my best to give him the most amazing sex life he could imagine. I am open to all he wants to do, apart from I wouldn’t real life include others, but all the fantasy talk and images he wants, and I push aside my own insecurities to explore that with him, so I feel disrespected and pissed off. I have no interest in any other guy, and if I did, I would never show any interest in any other guy. It’s totally disrespectful and damaging as far as I’m concerned.
You're participating in sexual activity that at best doesn't turn you on & at worst makes you anxious & disrespected.
Please have more care for yourself than this.
To be blunt - you are putting out for an awful man because you don't want to lose him. Why? - he's horrible to you. What has happened to you in your earlier life to make you so insecure & lacking in self-worth that you have kept dating this arsehole?
He has zero respect or care for you.
And that fantasy sexual roleplay? He knows damn well you're not into it. It's part of the turn-on for him. He's getting off on the transgression & your discomfort. It makes him feel powerful.
I'm not saying this to hurt you OP. I'm saying it because I am seriously concerned about your boundaries & ability to protect yourself.
What is stopping you from ditching him?
Dery · 19/03/2023 13:55
OP - this is all bollocks. You will crucify yourself trying to accommodate this guy’s sleazy appetites and will be endlessly confused, hurt, stressed and exhausted. Leave him behind.
callthataspade · 19/03/2023 13:58
All I can say is he's an utter shit
For your sanity. Block. And move on
But you know this right? Your soul is being destroyed in front of your very eyes.
He's told you who he is. And he won't change. And now he's blaming you.
Get out.
neilyoungismyhero · 19/03/2023 14:04
He's a complete dick.
Give him a swerve for your own sake.
GreyCarpet · 19/03/2023 14:49
With kindness, I push aside my own insecurities to explore that with him, so I feel disrespected and pissed off.
You are expecting him to respect you when you do not respect yourself.
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 15:50
I am someone that is happy to accommodate sexual kinks to have a really fulfilling relationship, and there has been complete balance with this, with it being more of an occasional thing, and I don’t feel taken for granted with it, I am able to see it as just a kink. Im not repulsed by it, I would be if it took over. He’s very giving to me with what I need also. I am fully monogamous and don’t have kinks about other people, but I do like exciting passionate other stuff, and he fulfils me totally. He’s also very affectionate and loving, and we have more in common that anyone I’ve ever met. It felt like betrayal because I thought he had everything he wanted with me, and I had everything I wanted with him.
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 15:52
I do respect myself. I’m more than happy to think outside the box with someone and I know where my lines are drawn. Real life stuff with others would be a firm no. I expect total loyalty and honesty. This is where he has crossed my boundaries.
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 15:53
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 15:50
I am someone that is happy to accommodate sexual kinks to have a really fulfilling relationship, and there has been complete balance with this, with it being more of an occasional thing, and I don’t feel taken for granted with it, I am able to see it as just a kink. Im not repulsed by it, I would be if it took over. He’s very giving to me with what I need also. I am fully monogamous and don’t have kinks about other people, but I do like exciting passionate other stuff, and he fulfils me totally. He’s also very affectionate and loving, and we have more in common that anyone I’ve ever met. It felt like betrayal because I thought he had everything he wanted with me, and I had everything I wanted with him.
& yet it makes you feel like this:
I push aside my own insecurities to explore that with him, so I feel disrespected and pissed off.
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 15:54
I expect total loyalty and honesty. This is where he has crossed my boundaries.
& he doesn't give you loyalty or honesty.
So what do you want to do about your boundaries - continue to have them trampled, or remove yourself from the trampler?
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 15:58
Yes, it makes me feel disrespected and pissed off that he has said in real life to real women those things, when I’ve understood his desires and fulfilled them, and thought we were as close as two people could be. He knew where my lines were and id think he could at least respect those lines considering I’m fulfilling him all the ways he said make him feel understood, loved and sexually fulfilled.
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 19/03/2023 16:09
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 15:58
Yes, it makes me feel disrespected and pissed off that he has said in real life to real women those things, when I’ve understood his desires and fulfilled them, and thought we were as close as two people could be. He knew where my lines were and id think he could at least respect those lines considering I’m fulfilling him all the ways he said make him feel understood, loved and sexually fulfilled.
You keep coming back to this, & I do understand why, because it's completely reasonable & normal to want our boundaries to be respected & our moral code aligned with our partner.
But he is not giving you any of this.
He is actively taunting you with his constant references to other women, closely followed by his bullshit justifications. It's a dominance display - "I will act just as I like, & I like seeing you get jealous when I undermine you by being inappropriate with other women."
He knew where my lines were
& he deliberately disrespected them.
He is not going to start respecting them just because you ask him to.
you've tired that again & again - what changed? Nothing.
He knows how you feel - he simply doesn't care that this hurts you.
So where does that leave your boundaries?
Again - are you going to let him keep trampling them, or are you going to sadly accept that he will do this to you for as long as you stay with him?
He is not going to change. The only way YOU can stop the upset he causes you by sleazing on other women is by leaving him.
EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 19/03/2023 16:14
You said that it’s just being a real man, that you fancy 50 people that walk by in a day.
Sounds like a dog that wants neutering
RememberNancyDrew · 19/03/2023 16:27
It sounds like you are trying to control his behavior by defining your boundaries.
Your boundaries should have you far far away from this man.
You can't control another person by setting and moving and re-setting your own boundaries.
GreyCarpet · 19/03/2023 17:51
You can't control another person by setting and moving and re-setting your own boundaries.
This.
I've read your updates, OP. You're fooling yourself. And it's a real shame. You're contradicting yourself all the time.
You are trying to frame accepting these behaviours as somehow being progressive or a sign of your emotional maturity and yet they make you feel bad.
You thread title tells how you feel - betrayed.
The bottom line of that you wouldn't have started the thread of you were ok with it all.
Amd ,as you've probably been told your boundaries are not for him. They are for you. They are what you are happy with. If you have to change them to be with someone then you need to not be with them.
Idontknowhelp · 19/03/2023 18:06
It’s not about “being progressive” or emotional maturity, it’s more about wanting to have an exciting sex life where we are both fulfilled and I’m open to new things within reasonable limits. It’s more about wanting to make each other happy, and I consider kink to be very different to real life stuff outside of the relationship. As a woman it DOES take realising it’s just kink and not letting it make me insecure, and I’m not with that, but at the beginning it was something I’d never tried and felt a mixture of feelings towards it. One thing I made clear with it is that as long as it’s never real life I’ll happily do it, we had long discussions about interactions with others and boundaries. You’d have to quote me where you think I have contradicted myself. These are not my boundaries that im trying to push on him, they are our mutually agreed boundaries. Yes boundaries are our own, but we discuss these things in a relationship if the relationship is serious. Which we did. I’m not sure why I even posted here, I suppose I wanted others perspectives on this. To be told he’s an arse for breaking those boundaries or that I’m a control freak or something, I don’t know. I suppose I feel very low today
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