I think I need to cancel my wedding

[Wouldyoubabys]

Dp and I booked our wedding in jan. Everyone very happy and excited. Kids told their mum (who is lovely) and she pointed out that when they had separated 12 years ago they had never actually got divorced. Dp says he can’t actually remember this but yes, it turns out they are still married.

He started divorce proceedings back in jan, but it’s now looking increasingly likely that it won’t be completed for our wedding in July. We have to give notice to get married in June.

I have been hassling him to call the company he’s using to manage it all last week and finally does so yesterday - he tells them that I am on his case about it, and then as it becomes apparent on the phone that we are unlikely to be able to get married in July, says he is about to waste £30k.

I’m gutted - our invites went out this week, his comment about me being on his case (why isn’t he eager to get it sorted himself!) about how there was no mention of how much he wants to marry me - just that he will lose £30k.

He didn’t come to bed last night, and this morning I’ve not been able to stop crying which he is angry about. He’s invited his pregnant daughter and ex wife around this morning and I said please don’t as I don’t want to see anyone - to which He replied well it’s my house too. His daughter I’m struggling with as we lost a baby last year and I haven’t got pregnant again. I’ve just heard them arrive so he obviously ignored me and now I feel trapped upstairs in my own home.

We normally have an idyllic life, he’s not normally a cock (though he has had his moments)

I don’t know what to do or how to feel. I know we are lucky, but the £30k on the wedding isn’t much compared to income, so whilst it is a waste - he normally wouldn’t even bat an eyelid at it. His bloody wife is sat downstairs ffs.

[Delectable]

How're things OP?

[Daenerys77]

@Wouldyoubabys

Divorce is none contested - his ex wife’s well taken care of, and financials etc were all split when they first separated over a decade ago.

So why hasn't the divorce happened? It seems your intended must be either lying or exceptionally stupid. Are you sure you want to be married to him?

[BudgetPlanMum]

So OP are you still getting married or not?

[Dindundundundeeer]

My Dad recently died and although my mum claimed his accounts @Butfirstcoffees without any probate she did have to sign a disclaimer (tick a box) that said she’d have to give it back if a Will (or claim) meant it wasn’t hers. I think you’ll find there was similar small print in your case.

[VanGoghsDog]

@Butfirstcoffees

The point is, you can make a will that leaves things to someone other than your spouse, it's perfectly valid. And no, assets do not necessarily automatically transfer to a spouse on death. (The fact that some people unlawfully ignore the law and do whatever they want is a different matter)

Who do you think ignored the law, in our case?

I didn't mean to imply that anyone did. I meant generally. People most definitely do.

[Butfirstcoffees]

The point is, you can make a will that leaves things to someone other than your spouse, it's perfectly valid. And no, assets do not necessarily automatically transfer to a spouse on death. (The fact that some people unlawfully ignore the law and do whatever they want is a different matter)

Who do you think ignored the law, in our case?

[Elsiebear90]

Can you not have a symbolic ceremony then do the legal bit once the divorce has gone through? You don’t need to tell anyone.

[VanGoghsDog]

Our banks asked for probate for over £50k, so mum had to provide death certificate and probate to show she was the executor. The money was then moved to her (because she was executor, not because she was his wife) and she distributed according to the will.

The point is, you can make a will that leaves things to someone other than your spouse, it's perfectly valid. And no, assets do not necessarily automatically transfer to a spouse on death. (The fact that some people unlawfully ignore the law and do whatever they want is a different matter).

[Butfirstcoffees]

@VanGoghsDog

Yes, sorry, mum, got it the wrong way around.

So, your case is entirely different, isn't it?

Your mum clearly didn't will away her assets from your dad.

I would suggest the amounts in the bank were relatively small, our banks insisted on probate because their rules are that over a certain amount you have to have it.
Plus my dad did have a will that willed some of his assets away from mum, which is entirely possible and valid.

The question here is - if a husband or wife dies, doesn't everything automatically go to the wife. And the answer is no.

There's a lot around that (like did they have a will, are there dependent kids, if there is a will what does it say, does the spouse have a reasonable expectation of inheriting, is the new partner dependent, etc etc).

But none of that sounds like it was the case with your mum.

Suppose it depends on what uou mean small amounts. It was in excess of 30k. In her own account. Nor sure exactly we got several thousands. Our kids did and so did Dad. Dad also got a vintage motorbike.

I get that it's different if you will it away. My point was that the bank certainly did take it as, my dad's because they were married.

All he needed was her death certificate and their marriage certificate. That was it. Didn't even ask if there was a will. As far as they were concerned, that was Dad's Money as my mum was now dead.

[VanGoghsDog]

Yes, sorry, mum, got it the wrong way around.

So, your case is entirely different, isn't it?

Your mum clearly didn't will away her assets from your dad.

I would suggest the amounts in the bank were relatively small, our banks insisted on probate because their rules are that over a certain amount you have to have it.
Plus my dad did have a will that willed some of his assets away from mum, which is entirely possible and valid.

The question here is - if a husband or wife dies, doesn't everything automatically go to the wife. And the answer is no.

There's a lot around that (like did they have a will, are there dependent kids, if there is a will what does it say, does the spouse have a reasonable expectation of inheriting, is the new partner dependent, etc etc).

But none of that sounds like it was the case with your mum.

[Butfirstcoffees]

@VanGoghsDog

In producing the death certificate and their marriage certificate to the bank, everything became my dad's. Wether it was in joint names or or only my mothers.

Did he have a will?

Did you go through probate?

Do you mean did mum have a will?

No, no probate. They didnr even ask for a will. I was there The house was also in her name only. Now in his, though he needed solicitor. Not sure in the detail there.

[VanGoghsDog]

In producing the death certificate and their marriage certificate to the bank, everything became my dad's. Wether it was in joint names or or only my mothers.

Did he have a will?

Did you go through probate?

[Butfirstcoffees]

When my dad died a couple of years ago, his accounts were set up so that all the joint stuff went to mum, which it would do automatically because it was jointly owned, but he also had an account in just his name which he bequeathed. It belonged to him, she did not automatically get that.

My mum died in December.

In producing the death certificate and their marriage certificate to the bank, everything became my dad's. Wether it was in joint names or or only my mothers.

She died in December. Dad had all the money in his account (which he then split with me and dbro) by mid January. He definitely automatically got it.

[VanGoghsDog]

@oviraptor21

No they haven't. Which is why I asked.
Two married people. Joint assets. At what point are they split.
What was 'You're welcome' about?

You said "correct me if I'm wrong", so I did.

It's too complicated to explain why the assets are not necessarily joint. But, as an example, if he bought a house as joint owner with OP, when he dies that automatically goes to OP because she owns it, it cannot in any turn of events belong to the wife.

Additionally, if he writes a will which wills away his assets from the wife, no she does not own them and no she does not automatically get them.

She may have a reasonable expectation of some financial support if she can show some ongoing dependency (unlikely given the length of the split) so could potentially successfully challenge on those grounds, but not for "half of everything", just for the reasonable support. Additionally any kids, particularly any dependent kids, could have the same claim. Although he may we'll have life insurance in their favour to cover this, that would be the norm - I made my ex buy reducing life cover to the value of outstanding maintenance in case he died so that there would be no contest to his will (though, to be clear, his will did not disinherit his son anyway, but I wanted to ensure that his son was properly provided for - I mean, he didn't due so it's academic).

When my dad died a couple of years ago, his accounts were set up so that all the joint stuff went to mum, which it would do automatically because it was jointly owned, but he also had an account in just his name which he bequeathed. It belonged to him, she did not automatically get that.

All this has been said in the thread several times.

Death is not the same as divorce. People often seem to assume the theory of "I own half of everything my husband owns" applies to both divorce and death. It really applies to neither, but it definitely does not apply to death.

[oviraptor21]

No they haven't. Which is why I asked.
Two married people. Joint assets. At what point are they split.
What was 'You're welcome' about?

[VanGoghsDog]

@oviraptor21

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the assets of a marriage (properties/profits from sale of businesses etc) will mostly be jointly owned and will therefore automatically become the wife's if the husband dies. The rest would be distributed as per the H's will, with the proviso that if the wife and DC aren't adequately provided for, that has to happen before any of the bequests are made.
Is there some mechanism by which x years of separation reduce some of the intertwining of marital assets?

Yes, you are wrong. You're welcome.

You could read the thread where several people have explained how this works

[oviraptor21]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the assets of a marriage (properties/profits from sale of businesses etc) will mostly be jointly owned and will therefore automatically become the wife's if the husband dies. The rest would be distributed as per the H's will, with the proviso that if the wife and DC aren't adequately provided for, that has to happen before any of the bequests are made.
Is there some mechanism by which x years of separation reduce some of the intertwining of marital assets?

[LostMoments]

Meant "you" wrote my story.... I tired of being treated as if I don't exist. My wishes and opinions have never counted. I'm still married but marriage died over a decade ago and I regret not leaving!

[LostMoments]

I wrote my life minus the cost. I was engaged to a man that thought he was divorced. It did get done and we eventually married. Don't allow anyone to put others, including his blood before you. There are good men out there that would love to find someone to love unconditionally through sickness and health.

[VanGoghsDog]

[quote HangingRock25]@VanGoghsDog Google marriage and Probate. What do you even suppose MARRIAGE is??[/quote]
I don't need to Google it, I know - it was you who made the claim, you are wrong, and you clearly can't back up what you said. Also there's no need to put things in capitals, I am very short sighted but I have glasses and I can increase the font size on the webpage as required.

But, as a starter for ten, I'll add - a will is invalidated by a subsequent marriage, but a will made after a marriage is valid whether it leaves anything to the spouse or not. A spouse not provided for who had a reasonable expectation of being supported could, potentially successfully, contest the will. Contesting wills in England is pretty rare, especially successfully. And in this case it's unlikely it would be successful as they had been split for 12 years so unless he is still supporting her (he might be) then there can be no expectation of support. Also, he may have bought insurance to cover maintenance in case of his death to prevent the will being contested as I made my ex do.

People often confuse the rights on divorce with the rights on death. I'm not sure what probate has to do with it though.

Please feel free to post your evidence of your assertions.

[JinglingHellsBells]

That's what I said all along- the wife could contest it. I appreciate (and knew) that anyone can leave their assets to anything/ anyone.

That wasn't the issue. It's more about if whoever drew up the Will (assuming it wasn't a DIY job, which is also valid) that as a married man he might have been advised about a possible claim on his assets. Maybe he feels the provision made already for his children and wife is fine and everyone is happy.

[NarcKid]

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Dindundundundeeer Are you missing the point?

The man is still married.
He's not yet divorced.

So if he wrote his will while married, leaving everything to the OP, and he falls under a bus next week, his wife would have a justified reason to contest the will (I assume?)

I don't understand your post as you seem to be saying two contradictory things-

To write a Will directing assets outside a marriage, written after a marriage is perfectly valid.

He's not outside a marriage. He's very much still IN his marriage.[/quote]
The will, assuming the man had mental capacity, is valid. His marital situation does not affect this under English law. He is not obliged to leave anything to his wife or children.

The wife is entitled to reasonable financial provision and can make a claim on the estate under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependents) Act. The court would generally award a similar amount to what she would have got on divorce, taking into account anything she has already had. A child or third party would need to show dependence and can expect to get what is necessary to maintain them at a reasonable standard of living (which may not be as luxurious as anything they became used to while the deceased was alive).

If the OP marries then any will of hers and of the man will immediately become invalid unless those wills were specifically made in anticipation of the marriage.

[Butfirstcoffees]

I think dependency can be claimed here. The wife has dependent children. Op says he pays alot to the exwife. She will be dependent on that money. As I said, they may have remained married so she could inherit. So she may have that expectation.

The kids having been bought a house each to cover their inhertience, doesn't help the person left raising the children. There's also the possibility of adult children being able to make a claim, if he regularly gives them money.

And let be honest, if you can forget you are divorced, you can forget wether the financials were legally complete or not. Or wether it was an interim order or not.

I think the point is the op assuming she was looked after because she 'got everything' in the event of his death and his kids got a house each, is another situation where she doesn't fully understand what's could happen and hasn't been made fully aware of the facts.

And what happens to her son, if everything of hers goes to her dp?

[Dindundundundeeer]

@JinglingHellsBells

He's not outside a marriage. He's very much still IN his marriage

I know but a Will can leave assets to whomever or whatever you wish. You can be married and leave the lot to the cats home. There is entitlement due to dependency, but not marriage.

There are very few ways to contest a legally written Will - despite what the movies tell us.

MORE concerning is whether the financial settlement was made legally or not. Coming back for a second bite of assets is perfectly possible.

[bembridge11]

Sorry to hear this,
In an uncontested divorce such as this it only takes approx 6-8 weeks to complete.
So something isnt right here.