Feel a bit depressed and worried about the future

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

I need to start this off by saying we’re in our first property and I feel incredibly grateful that we even have that. I spent many years convinced we’d never even be able to buy at all. So I’m really hoping I don’t come off ungrateful for what we have.

However. We’re both 40. We just bought a two bed flat and we have three children sharing a room. Our eldest is boy and we have two younger girls. DS is just turning 8. I reckon we have a few years here before we completely out grow it.

We got this place quite cheap comparatively. It was a bit run down and other identical flats in our estate are on sale for about 70k more. So I guess I am hopeful that when it comes time to sell, we will be able to build up equity. We’re in south London and prices have continued to steadily rise despite what’s happening at the moment.

But this does mean that when we need to upsize, everything else will be a lot dearer too. Three bed flats or houses round here are 450-500k. Even with a (very optimistic) 80-90k deposit, with our age, I can’t see how we’d get the mortgage needed.

DH and I have talked a bit about the future - renting a bigger place or us sleeping in the front room for a few years to give DS some privacy until we can move. But I just feel a bit depressed and despondent about it. We’re kind of tied to this area because of DH’s work and plus we’re settled in schools/ friends. I’ve gone from feeling so lucky and thankful to worried about how we ever better things for ourselves.

[MsKeats]

We are moving but downsizing. If the business does well online -can you move out of London?

[time4anothername]

You say it is a fear of not getting a new mortgage for your move that is causing much of this. Gone are the days when 65 was the limit that your term is caculated on. Lenders have adapted to people working longer. Your flat sounds lovely - enjoy it :-)
Have a read of this www.bsa.org.uk/BSA/files/cc/cca1a315-0456-488b-9437-0c70c6f844a0.pdf

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

@Lemonylemony it was rented by an elderly couple who wouldn’t let the vendor in to do updates to the bathroom or kitchen. It had crumbling single pane windows, no flooring, broken front door and a kitchen floor that looked like someone had set fire to it.

We’ve spent a bit so far installing new floors/ carpets in all rooms/kitchen/ hallway, double glazing, new front door and having a shower plumbed in, chipped all the wood chip off the walls and completely redecorated. It was marketed as a project and was on for 40k more than what we offered but the vendor was happy to negotiate. We ended up having an offer of 30k under asking accepted. Plan to redo kitchen and bathroom - not crazily expensive, just enough to modernise without spending loads.

I want to thank everyone because I’ve had a great mix of really practical advice plus being reminded of what we’ve achieved. I love this flat so much because it’s our. It’s a really lovely flat despite the work needed. I’ve loved doing work on it so far and I have dreamed for so long of what it would feel like to own - and it really lives up to those dreams so far. So yes, don’t go looking for trouble to borrow. Think the best thing I can do is spend time and love on this place continuing to make it our home, enjoy living my own personal dream, over pay what we can and/or save, and review the situation when the time comes. Thank you everyone.

[JoJoSM2]

Retirement age is going to be 68 for you but banks approve even longer so you should be able to take another mortgage out over a long period. You might be able to overpay to clear it sooner, but even if not, you can always downsize when children have flown the nest.
In the long run, you’ll be much better off owning your own property.

[borageforager]

Your flat sounds lovely.

We just got a 30 year mortgage, which would have DH working til he is 70, so don’t think they are impossible? But really I think ‘don’t borrow trouble’ is the motto here - don’t worry about things that aren’t a problem yet and may not be a problem ever.

[HopelesslydevotedtoGu]

Your home sounds lovely op, especially the big communal gardens, great to have such a big space. Please enjoy it.

If you decide to stay look at blogs for apartment living with kids and tiny houses to get ideas for using space really well. As you have big rooms, there will be a way to divide one to create an extra bedroom space. It sounds like privacy for your ds is the need, rather than extra space, so you can rejig the space you have.

If you decide to move, I'd consider whether it's really worth being in London for your dh's local clients and higher earnings. My dh earns much more in London, but when we looked at the cost of buying a 3-4 bed houses near good secondaries, financially it made much more sense to move away. Our area had lots of nice flats which families with young kids lived in, but many of the houses had been turned into HMO for renting out, so there was little for families to expand into.

As your dh has successfully started an online business, I'm sure he can develop his business should you move away from London, and even if he earns significantly less your money could go so much further.

[Sparklewater]

I'm 42 and have just been approved on a 30 year mortgage.

In reality I'll be overpaying as soon as I can so should be clear well before that. (We took a longer term to free up ongoing cash for renovations.)

But it is possible, so don't despair.

[Lemonylemony]

You could definitely look at different areas north/east London and get more space for your money. Commuting across London is time consuming. Have a look at where.rightmove.co.uk you can search for budget/size of property within certain commute of a location. I just put in 1h15 from Belsize Park, 3 bedroom house up to £450k, and it’s returned 72 areas for example. So definitely possible.

If other identical flats are £70k more why was yours cheap? Can you do the work to increase the value in line with the rest of the estate?

[Funf]

We live up north , hosing is mostly cheaper and its less congested, would you not get better value moving away?

[SandysMam]

Your flat sounds so lovely OP! I would enjoy it for now, don’t waste precious time worrying or feeling like a failure. You have 3 kids, a mix of both sexes (a mother in laws perfection ) and a fit husband ha ha! Daily gratitudes might help and also stay off social media where it seems like everyone is living the dream.

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Ah ok
My suggestion was to keep you in the flat. Then eventually one of them at least willow out and you can take the bedroom back.

[PeppaPigMakesMeGrrrrr]

You mentioned high ceilings....high enough for a mezzanine in the bedroom to give your DS a 'high sleeper' area? It sounds like a lovely flat and area. You will think of a solution.

[Purpler5]

Couple of things spring to mind:

1. Have a look on Pinterest for clever ideas about dividing rooms and using space to give personal space.
   

1. You can get mortgages to age 70 now no problem, so you can still take out a 20+ year mortgage in a few years time. My advice would be to really stretch yourself with the mortgage and pay it off by downsizing/moving to a cheaper area when the children have left home.

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

DS - not DD.

[AmandaHugenkiss]

That does sound stressful, but you’ve done so well to get where you are. As PP have said, you’re allowed to worry even if you don’t feel like you’re “allowed” to.

If your DH works in N London, could somewhere in the commuter belt going in to Kings X work for you? Watford for example has fast trains; I moved out to Hertfordshire to buy and my commute to Liv st is shorter now than when I rented in South London and came across London.

Potentially if you can afford it and your mortgage allows you could try overpaying and chunk away at it, giving you more equity if you do come to buy again.

I get the age thing; me and DP at 40 have just bought together our first house and already discussing how to overpay so we get it done early and can save money for retirement. You are doing the right thing by thinking sensibly about this with plenty of time to plan.

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz Front room is 12ft. We have a large sofa bed and I really don’t mind giving up our room for DD. But I don’t know if that’s a long term solution - it’s my age that’s bothering me. Maybe we only have four or five years to get another affordable mortgage? I think we would be ok with a 20 year but not 15. I don’t know.

[Lindy2]

You now have the security of owning your own home rather than renting. That's a benefit to you and your children.

The flat sounds lovely.

If it was me I would put the children in the bedrooms and then turn the lounge into a room that is a lounge in the day but has a pull out or convertible bed for you and your DH at night.

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

How big is the living room? Could you install a Murphy bed? Then just pull it down into place once the kids have gone to bed.

Then your son could have one room (with your wardrobe in) and the girls could keep the existing bedroom.

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

@PracticingPerson ❤️❤️❤️

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

@SandysMam lockdown almost decimated DH’s business but he’s done really well to take it online and now has online coaching clients in the US and Australia. He’s niche enough to be a massive differentiator from other coaches, and we’ve talked for years now about how to future proof his business - so he took advantage of lockdown fo start writing a coaching program to sell alongside workshops. The workshops have been a staple of his business for years now so it’s a natural progression. The private clients are his bread and butter and the monthly workshops were a way of progressing the business and to diversify. Obviously lockdown bloody scuppered the ability to put on workshops but that’s not going to be forever.

So what I’m rambling about is I’m confident about DH’s ability to grow his business in a way that’s not reliant on his physical ability in his sixties!

[PracticingPerson]

You are not a failure. Get that tidied up in your mind!

Don't over focus on bedrooms. It is a modern phenomenon to have a bedroom each. No privacy at Hogwarts and they seem happy enough! The older one can be given time alone by e.g. you taking younger ones to the park and letting them have a couple of hours at home alone.

I also want more space but I am not a failure - I know some people with bigger houses and bigger issues.

[GorgeousLadyofWrestling]

Thanks everyone. Weirdly, it doesn’t feel cramped right now - it’s a spacious ground floor flat with huge communal gardens, and we’re right next to a huge park. Our front door opens out into the gardens and it has really high ceilings so it feels very spacious. It’s an old sixties development so it’s a big square divided into four - which means we have a large, separate kitchen. Not an open plan kitchen/ living room space which has been like all my other rental flats. Having a separate kitchen with enough space to be a kitchen diner makes all the difference in terms of sense of space.

It doesn’t feel cramped right now and that’s not really the problem. Even if it was a tiny three bed place, it would be fine. We don’t need a huge amount of space and lockdown was actually ok, all things considered. The children don’t mind sharing right now, they get on really well and there are no arguments or bickering. But I am really aware that in just a few years, DS will want his privacy.

There’s a lot of emotion in this for me. For so long I felt like a failure for not owning, for renting. We finally were in a position to buy - a two bed was al we could afford and we wanted to stay in this area for many reasons, so you make your decision and accept the limitations. But I suppose that feeling of failure is creeping back in again. We bought the flat cheap, knowing that others in the same estate (it’s a large purpose built estate of identical flats and maisonettes) were on the market for a lot more - and have continued to sell during lockdown. So I guess I was hopeful / just assumed we’d build enough equity plus savings that would mean a step up was affordable. But I hadn’t really thought about our age - I think that’s what’s bothering me. Suddenly it feels on a tight time scale not just for my son needed his own space but also our age. It’s like cognitive dissonance, like - shit, we’ve just turned 40, how much longer do we have for another mortgage?

Moving slightly further out is the most likely option plus earning more. I work in tech start ups so I’m confident about my earning capacity. I think even the next stop on the train is a bit cheaper so I think we have more options than I was thinking - I was just feeling really panicky about the future and what we would do.

[SandysMam]

Can you build a partition wall in the kids bedroom? Is it big enough? Then bunk beds for the girls and single bed for the boy? You like the area, it is good for work, I would look at making the flat work for you! Could you change a bedroom into the lounge and the lounge into a bigger bedroom to section off? Personal training is not a secure job, however rich the clients, he could do his back in and be fucked! I would not stretch even further and if not willing to move areas, find a way to make your flat work. You are so lucky to own in London, don’t get into a funk.

[PracticingPerson]

I feel your pain, the pandemic rather scuppered our house move plans.

You are allowed to feel it a bit even while you recognise you are not in the worst situation

[ReefTeeth]

@Goslowlysideways why are flats "...always really good investments"

Surely they're not at the moment for a start.