Renovate above house value...or not?

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

Bought at £485k. Early 1900 house. .5 bedrooms. ..it’s liveable in but the work we want to do would make it ours, more liveable and nicer.

It’s totting up to about £200k in all worst case scenario including contingency of £25k.

That’s new pressurised cylinder, putting proper extension on back replacing old knackered conservatory, new kitchen, moving stairs to attic, replacing front door, 3 replacement windows, 2 new Velux, new back door, downstairs loo, painting and decorating throughout some skimming of walls.

mAx price for a newly done house in the road is about 560k.

We are wondering whether to not to the nice to haves, but they are the things that will make it nicer to live here.

[positivelynegative]

I honestly don’t think all renovations add value we are spending a small fortune and definitely couldn’t sell for what we’ve spent - AV system, laundry chute, bespoke kitchen etc, but it’s for us to enjoy. It devalues like a car!

[waxofffff]

Because your 200k is from savings & you're planning to stay I would say renovate to the house you love.

[OneEpisode]

Having said that, £200k is a helluva lot of money!

[OneEpisode]

I think some of the early posts didn’t realise the OP owns this house.

If OP can afford it she can add a wood burner or replace bathrooms where “we just don’t like them”.
It’s possible that these sort of changes will add to the value of the house, but not by much. These sort of changes are for the benefit of the people living in the house, the OP & family. These changes are an alternative to spending more money on nice restaurant meals or beauty treatments. They are a choice of how to spend disposable income. That’s fine.

[WombatChocolate]

That last post reminded me of the Sarah Beeny property TV programmes of 15-20 years ago. The people would spend lots doing up a house and then at the end it would be valued and Sarah would always say ‘so it’s risen by £x but remember the market is rising and even properties across the road which have had nothing done to them have risen by almost as much or the same’

It’s right to view it as a home and any work for yourself and not just investment purposes....but at the same time, there’s no point going open-eyed into a situation where you will spend tens or hundreds of thousands which won’t be re-couped. If you sell in 10/15 years, prices will no doubt have gone up even if not by the amounts of the early 2000s. It’s tempting to think that means the project was viable, but you do have to look at prices then if properties where nothing was done to see the true cost. If all you can then buy with the sale proceeds is a property that is the same price as an unmodernised version of your own house, you haven’t added vale, whatever the actual sale price is.

[Someyoulose]

I’ve been in my house 8 years and spent probably £50k on it in that time. The house over the road sold at the same time for a very similar price and I know they have spent nothing bar basic decorating and a couple of carpets. The values are probably very similar now even though their house still needs a full rewire and has ancient central heating as both houses look equally nice decor wise. We did these jobs and they’re expensive. I’m not sure you really get the money back even for stuff like this to be honest.

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

I think by the time we sell it or the stuff we will have put in will have viewers saying 'oh, my god, that's so 2020'. And ripping it all out.

[DidoAtTheLido]

Probably by the time you sell you would have needed to have spent a good whack in general repairs, renewals and maintenance anyway.

If you can afford it spend the money to make it the home you want. Cheaper than moving house and paying the increased stamp duty etc fees on a More expensive house.

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

@Robs20 We did a loft conversion in previous house - which we stayed in 10 years. We needed the space and it made the house very easy to sell when we moved. Probably broke even on doing that rather than moving once moving costs etc factored in. And we'd have the benefit of it for the time as well.

I don't think we'll feel trapped by having done the work as long as we feel the benefit of it for the time we'll live here - but that is a concern.

We're getting the living room painted next week - which needs a major freshen up and I think will help me decide.

[Robs20]

Same position here. We bought in Feb and were planning to extend. Rules out side extension as too exp/ would lose money when we sell, but thought loft conversion would be ok. Spoke to an EA last week who said don’t extend unless we stay 5-10 years. Seems like such a big risk and I don’t want to be trapped. In your position I would move!

[titchy]

@GolightlyMrsGolightly

The stairs to the loft is a nice to have....but the benefits are that we will get a usable stair case that we can get furniture up and can be used more safely. Current stairs very steep and impossibly tight turn.

Added bonus Is it will bring a huge amount of natural light into an incredibly dark upstairs hall.

TBF we could live without the extra light and they are rooms that we won’t use much.

That sounds like the sort of work that won't add any value. It'll look fantastic - but you're not gaining any bedrooms. And it sounds like you won't necessarily use the rooms either - so can you put this on the back burner?

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

It is really helpful seeing the different view points.

Our intention is to live in it for a decent length of time. But best intentions and all that - we all now stuff can happen that changes things radically.

We aren't mortgaged to the hilt, much of the work will be done out of savings and income. There's slack in what we are doing that if we don't want to do it all at once we don't have to so we can stage it.

But there's a fair amount that we both want to get a decent amount of benefit out of what we are doing - so the house works for us to live in now.

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

Again all good points.

We've done a very thorough costing - got quotes and already stepped back from some ridiculous prices for kitchens and bathrooms.

We would like new bathrooms as the current ones are serviceable but are going to need things like a new shower soon, new taps, the loos fixed and we just don't like them. Putting in good quality but not top end bathrooms with better heating and a decent water supply will greatly improve our experience of living in the house and I think is just one of those things you need to do every now and then.

I'm putting a woodburner in because that will make the room it is going into much nicer, more likely to be used and cosy in the winter.

We'd like to be able to sit inside on one of the many many cold wet days we get where we live and be able to see the garden. That's a nice to have that will greatly improve our experience of living in the house.

Do we need swanky work tops, boiling water taps, expensive flooring and lighting...no, and that's where we'll cut the budget.

[WombatChocolate]

The fact you're thinking about it in terms of the top value of houses on your street, suggests you will always feel annoyed at knowing you've exceeded the ceiling price of the street...and this will diminish your enjoyment of the house, however nice you make it.

I think you need to decide a top budget which keeps you within the ceiling price of the street (only works if you can be very strict with yourselves and in full co troll of costs....your posts don't suggest this is likely) or you need to decorate and sell on, moving to the done up place that suits you.

Moving will be a big fag and annoying and costly, even with a stamp duty Hol (although at least you'll get decent savings and maybe find you can sell more easily...but you'll have to be quick) but living through a major renovation is probably even more annoying, especially if there's always a niggling feeling that the numbers don't stack up.

Some people start a renovation and go over budget and later realise they've spent beyond e ceiling of the street.....irritating, but perhaps unplanned and hopefully not too much of an overspend. Starting out on a project knowing you will do this and that there will be a signicant overspend, to be honest just sounds a bit daft.

Sometimes it's best to just say you've made a mistake and cut your loss and move on from it. Or, lower what you want from this house and do a very limited and controlled amount of work to keep it in the right price range, with a view to moving in perhaps 5 years to get all the stuff you really want.

[Ineedadentist]

Your house sounds similar in age and size to houses in my area.

One of my neighbouring houses has the narrow steep staircase as you describe. It feels quite unsafe so the rooms up there are largely unused.
Another has a proper staircase and the difference is huge. But they have a lot of visitors to stay so decent access to these rooms is important to them.

No-one here spends on a high-end finish for kitchens, bathrooms etc. though.

And once they move here they tend to stay for many years so it makes sense to do the improvements. The only other houses with that amount of space are new builds on an estate and not everyone wants that. Maybe your area offers more choice.

[Flamingolingo]

When we moved into this house we had a zillion ideas for things that could be done. We had the structural engineer in within days to talk through this and that. He was great but really to the point in that he said he would draw whatever we wanted but that we needed to think about how much we wanted to spend because some of our ideas were just not a great return for the cost. In the end we did the things that made a big difference to our everyday life. I didn’t get the big remodel of the dark and broken up hotch potch utility/wc space that I wanted. We ended up with the solution that was right for the house and right for us, most of our money was spent on things and spaces we use all the time and that we live in.

A light landing is a lovely thing, but maybe you can experiment with light bright paint. In our old house we painted the hallway timeless and that made a massive difference. This hallway is lighter so we’ve gone a touch darker (but not much). But when we moved in every surface of the hallway (walls/floors/ceiling) was dusky pink. It’s incredible how much difference better paint colours and good lighting have cost

[steppemum]

One thing to take into account is where is the money coming from?

If you had to sell in 3 years time, is the money all on a mortgage/loans?

I would never live in a house which I couldn't sell due to loans against it, and then have to continue to pay off those loans once the house is sold.

I understand you need to have a nice house, but I would start again adn look at where you can compromise. What are your high end finishes? Is it most expensive bathroom suite and tiles? Then change those for more basic, and spend the money on immaculate finish with those, will still look beautiful. Fancy, expensive waterfall taps etc are not necessary and those types of things will add up over a whole house/extension

[GolightlyMrsGolightly]

The stairs to the loft is a nice to have....but the benefits are that we will get a usable stair case that we can get furniture up and can be used more safely. Current stairs very steep and impossibly tight turn.

Added bonus Is it will bring a huge amount of natural light into an incredibly dark upstairs hall.

TBF we could live without the extra light and they are rooms that we won’t use much.

[weepingwillow22]

It sounds expensive to me. We are in the middle of doing a 2 storey extension in the SE. The build cost is £120k for 60 sqm plus extensive renovation to the existing house. It is quite high end, vaulted ceilings upstairs, lots of glass, aluminium windows, underfloor heating. The kitchen, flooring and decorating is on top of this though.

I think builders may now be charging more than they were last year. Any extras seem to be charged at vey high rates and other bits of work that we have tried to arrange ourselves have been met with limited interest and sky high quotes. Builders have told me that everyone is wanting to do up their houses at the moment plus prices for materials have rocketed.

[Flamingolingo]

I also think I would group the work into things that need to be done and things that are nice to have. The hot water cylinder is money you can’t see but will have a positive impact every day. So that would be high on my list. The kitchen too - I cook a lot, but I would be looking for compromises. It might be that you have to do that extension though. The stairs to the loft? That sounds like a nice to have. Unless there is no staircase there at all.

[Iamanangel]

@Saz12

It’s primarily your home, not an investment. (If anyone recommends you invest all your capital into one companies shares, you’d not do it. Yet people see their home as their only investment).

So IMO what you’re really asking is, “would you spend £100k on treats and nice things that you’d enjoy for 10 years?”. Answer depends on how much money you have and how much you’ll enjoy it, and if you’d get more joy from spending it on something else (or saving it!).

Some costs you’ll incur anyway (new windows don’t sound optional).

This is why home owners don't maintain houses, they think about recouping costs when it's sold. Houses needs maintaining

[AdoreTheBeach]

If you’re planning to stay long term, then go for it

I say this as someone who had been in their home 20 years.

When we first moved in, we had to replace s the boiler (large hiuse, pricey job). We replaced the kitchen, moving water and gas about the room

Replaced the driveway as what was there was not laid correctly and had no drainage

Replaced the patio for same reason

Repainted throughout as horrid colour scheme

Well. That was 20 years ago

flat roof extension needed new flat roof, it happens

House needed painting - it happens, regular maintenance but it’s pricey

We have redone the driveway as our kids got older and we needed more parking spaces

We replaced the now outdated bathrooms

Decking cane into fashion, so redid patio with decking

Replaced carpets as now what was there is old

We undertook 100k work on going open plan, moved kitchen to other side if the house, bifolds, underfloor hearing, new boiler. Etc

So over the 20 years we have had the house we have spent much more than we will get back even though the value of the house has gone up. If you plan to stay long term, you’ll have gotten your money back in enjoyment and you will help with increase in value. Don’t look at it as solely about money in = resale value. Some if what you’ve listed is also maintenance.

[Inmybackyard]

The works all sound sensible. The problem is the high end finishes I expect. Are you trying to make it look like the sort of home you read about in the Sunday supplements?

If it’s the family home for the long haul then I definitely agree with the poster who said you have to flip the question: is what you’re doing going to give you £10k of enjoyment a year?

[wufti]

Oops, sorry, didn’t get to answers on page 2!

[wufti]

What is the split of the £200k budget and is the extension single or double storey? Do the done up houses have high end kitchens etc? You can get perfectly good kitchens from Howdens, DIY kitchens etc. Bathrooms - even if you can’t do DIY, you can save a lot by buying your own bathroom fittings, likewise investigate windows and doors - there are huge variations in what you can pay.
Look at your nice to haves- are they really that essential - eg boiling water taps cost up to £1k but a decent kettle can be had for £40