Need support in remaining in UK with my family. Can you help?

[englishgarden370]

Hi Everyone,

I am an American citizen. My husband and two children are British citizens. I am having to make an application for Leave to Remain in the UK with them and as a precautionary measurement I have started a petition to aid in my application to remain in them. It used to be that anyone who married a British citizen had the right to stay in the country with them but so many immigrants have taken advantage in the past just to gain citizenship that the government has made it much more complicated and expensive now. My three year old son had autism and Sensory Integration Disorder. I am everything to him and my family is my whole world. If any of you could possibly take a second to read my petition and if you were happy to sign it, in support of my application to remain with them, I would be extremely grateful!

Thank you so much for your consideration!
Jennifer

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

I don't think that a person's right to live as a family should depend upon salary

Completely agree with this. The Tories are proper cunts but there are still inconsistencies in the OP's account.
I know it's bloody hard to get a salary of £24000 without professional qualifications but the OP's husband should have been working his arse off to get there over the last 3 years. The OP could have looked after the DC while he did this.

[Bullettoothtony]

Some people are not capable of professional qualifications. Not everyone is. That doesn't make them less worthy of a family. It doesn't make them less worthy people


And how is it logistical that 24k is not considered enough to support a family for immigration purposes, yet many UK families are expected d to live on that?

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Yeah well that's the rules and shit as they are, you can't ignore them.
Families with 2 kids and income less than £24k get benefits so they aren't expected to live off less than that
Although the British parent in this situation would be entitled to the benefits anyway and would have potentially less need for them if they had a spouse living with them too so the rules are totally illogical

[specialsubject]

what should have been done is 'keep to the rules'. As you say, way too late.

advice has been offered - go through the right routes, be honest from now on and don't plaster the internet with all the rules that have been broken.

[putcustardonit]

I've signed. I don't understand the complexities of her circumstances but she's desperate.
Good luck.

[chantico]

If I read the petition properly, she hasn't even applied for ILTR yet.

So either the petition is remarkably (and counter-productively) premature, or it's all hypothetical for some other reason.

[AFewGoodWomen]

Unexpected pregnancy happens. A lot. Those saying "you chose to have children knowing your circumstances" are being highly disingenuous. Not everyone has planned babies.

[IonaMumsnet]

Evening folks. We're going to move this over to Petitions in a moment, where we think it might be better placed. Could we also just take this opportunity to ask for a bit of peace and love on the thread? Thanking you.

[Fairenuff]

But the children can have their mum. They can live in the US with her. Wanting to be with her children has nothing to do with immigration really. There needs to more to it than that.

[Patapouf]

peoplelie but it goes both ways in Europe, if you fancy moving to France for e.g. you have the right to but we have no such agreement with the U.S. I understand what you mean re:reason for moving but we don't get to decide who is more 'worthy' and presumably the OP didn't have her DCs before moving to the UK, so she too just 'fancied living here'.

Anyone who thinks that a UKVI case worker is going to give a shiny shit about the circumstances that the OP thinks makes her exceptional is deluded. A petition isn't going to do anything, especially not at the pre-application stage!
Govt have already been taken to court over the spouse visa requirements and they rules that it didn't contravene human rights so I doubt a sob story is going to change anything.

OP, knock the petition on the head and crack on with applying properly.

[fakenamefornow]

Op please come back. I'm really curious what you've been doing for the last five years, where were your children born, did you always live with them how have you been supporting yourself etc, your petition didn't explain any of that. Oh, and good luck with your application regardless of how you got here.

[HamaTime]

But the children can have their mum. They can live in the US with her. Wanting to be with her children has nothing to do with immigration really. There needs to more to it than that.

But they may not be able to have their Dad if they do that. Loads of families are split up because of immigration rules, it has everything to do with immigration. While my cousin was living in the UK with her dcs, trying to hold down a job that fulfilled the spousal visa requirements she didn't see her DH at all for over 2 years. They couldn't afford to fly to NZ to visit him because they were running 2 homes and paying a lot in childcare and he wasn't allowed a visitors visa because of the risk that he'd overstay.
My friend has a son living with his Dad in the USA and she isn't allowed to live there. He visits for the summer holidays but it's no way to raise a child. It's different because they are divorced but there are lots of couples who aren't divorced where neither can get a visa for the other spouse's country.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

he wasn't allowed a visitors visa because of the risk that he'd overstay

You mean like the OP did? It's the people that disregard the rules like the OP that make it more difficult for those that DO follow the rules.

Still waiting for the OP to tell the truth. Doubt very much we'll see it.

[expatinscotland]

My guess is she overstayed the visitor's visa and hasn't gone back in 5 years - they have been on to people who visit an EU country and then re-enter for another six months for a long time. And now doesn't want to return to the US to apply for FLR, which you've also had to do for a long time if you didn not marry on a fiance visa.

[Micah]

So o/p.

You can see that overwhelmingly people think that you have tried to screw the system, and are now using emotional blackmail with your petition. In fact your petition points out that you have not followed immigration rules at any time, and you seem to think having children and a romantic story exempts you.

Do you think immigration/the home office will view it any differently?

I'm thinking because you haven't returned to this thread you simply think we are all nasty unsympathetic bitches. Have you considered that maybe we have a point and you should change your approach, admit you got it wrong and start gathering evidence to support your application rather than sympathy and signatures.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

Micah none of your post is relevant cos the OP is special dontcha know. All that shit is for others.

[expatinscotland]

It makes it harder for everyone else. Pisstakers en masse are the reason the rules started to change and get a lot tighter, and yes, that includes under the last Labour government. I came here in 2002, when it was legal to marry on a visitor's visa and then change to FLR, which again, was only for one year. By then a fee had been implemented for ILR, of £150 and for naturalising, which you could do 11 months later and I did. By the time a friend naturalised in Jan., 2007 ahead of a steep Feb. price jump, things had become a lot stricter. These stricter rules are nothing new and have been going in that direction far longer than the past 5 years.

Our friend's daughter married her S. African boyfriend, whom she met whilst he was on a Working Holidaymaker visa, in S. Africa 2010. Guess what? Those financial rules were in place by then! She had left her job and flat in the UK to take an extended honeymoon. They applied for his FLR in S. Africa and were rejected. She had to come back to the UK alone, get a flat, a job and some savings and then he had to re-apply and pay the fee over again 6 months later. Because they followed the rules they are now living happily, and legally, here with their two children.

Still another friend, a S. African woman married to a Scottish man, had to go through an almighty kerfuffle to naturalise here due to S. African laws regarding dual nationality. But them's the rules.

Another friend was up to do ILR, his FLR was expiring, whilst his and his wife's only child was dying of cancer. He filed for extension to get more time instead of just thinking his situation meant he didn't have to follow the rules at all. Yes, that's right, whilst their only child was dying of cancer.

So I have zero sympathy for people who think they are above the law just because they are them and their situation when they know damn well what they have been doing the past 5 years.

[expatinscotland]

Oh, and when you apply for your children's first British passports, which is a legal requirement for them to enter and leave the UK, since they are British nationals, they are not coming back into the UK to visit but to live, whilst you claim their nationality via the British parent (or yourself if you are on ILR), you have to prove you are here legally, which leads me to suspect the OP has not left the UK at all but overstayed (I may be wrong).

I had to fill out and send, at my expense and we are low income, too, reams of paperwork to prove my children were entitled to British nationality and proof of my legality here. In fact, our eldest child's initial application was rejected as I was not on ILR when she was born and they got confused since I was naturalised with the other two, despite my having sent original certificate of naturalisation, the original letter from the then Home Office of my ILR and FLR, marriage certificate, all sorts. Including proof of continuous residence in the UK.

Similarly, US law decrees that those who are US nationals must enter and leave the US on their US passports. This means we have to make an appointment at the Consulate, which is far from us, and appear in person every time, even for renewals. And this includes my British/Scottish husband, who must either appear in person or sign a letter in front of a solicitor granting his permission due to child abduction treaty between the UK and US. It's not a lot of fun with our autistic son. But it's the law and we are not above it. I take a notarised letter with us every time we travel to the US without him, that I have his permission to bring them to the US to visit family.

[LisbethSalandersLaptop]

" It used to be that anyone who married a British citizen had the right to stay in the country with them but so many immigrants have taken advantage in the past just to gain citizenship that the government has made it much more complicated and expensive now. "

do you not see the irony in that?
No offence but you really should/could have checked these things out before giving birth. Twice.

[expatinscotland]

At one point, we were traveling between the US and UK with nine passports among us, two each for me and our then three children and a UK one for my husband, who also has to have an ETSA to go to the US and enter on a separate queue from us in the US, where he usually gets grilled and has to show his return to ticket to prove he is just there for a visit and not to skirt round the rules and try to stay long-term in the US with us without the proper visa.

I went through Amsterdam on my own with our two surviving children this past summer, spending the night there to break up the journey for our autistic son. I used our UK passports to exit the airport at Amsterdam because the queue was shorter and my son was kicking off.

The next day, when I went to take them onto the flight from Amsterdam to the US, when they scanned our US passports, the immigration person knew we had gone into the Netherlands not on that passport and queried it. They scan at entry and exit now, no stamping, and know. I had to dig out our UK passports and explain the situation.

[expatinscotland]

I'm still trying to puzzle out how you married on a visitor visa in 2012 and my only conjecture is that it was in a CoE church as they are exempt. But then, how do you register this with the council without it raising red flags? Unless there were some really ignorant people at the council.

[Fairenuff]

Loads of families are split up because of immigration rules, it has everything to do with immigration.

This is why I am so shocked that OP had two children knowing that there was a very high chance of them having to be separated from either her or their dad.

Who does that? Seriously, I cannot understand why she would take that risk.

[juneau]

Well the OP has clearly flounced off as she hasn't been seen for pages and pages .... but as someone unfamiliar with MN I think she's been rather shocked that we sussed her out as someone who wasn't telling the truth from the get-go. Bloodhounds have nothing on the wily women (and men) or MN.

I agree with you expat on the whole visa/passport/supposedly been in and out umpteen times story. It doesn't add up - at all. My American DH has to show his ILR every single time he comes back here and he'd be prevented from entering the country without it as its perfectly clear from his passport entry/exit dates, which are all stored electronically by the UK Border Force, that he lives here. It sounds to me like the OP came here on either a visa waiver or a short-term visa of some kind and has stayed her ever since. She possibly got married while it was still in date, but since then has done nothing to adjust her status, leading to her current situation.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

I suppose she didn't consider that some of us were Americans that had come to the UK by following the immigration laws to the letter.

Oops. Surprise!

It does sound like she got married on a visitor visa, and then just stayed illegally, also getting free health care through the NHS that she shouldn't have been using. Any attempt to register the dcs with the US would have immediately flagged up her immigration status, so it's highly doubtful this was done. Everything she has said points to an overstay.

I feel badly for her children, but annoyed that she thinks that she can just lie or be sparing with the truth to get to stay after deliberately ignoring the laws. Her petition kind of paints her to be a victim of a mean old government, which just isn't the reason she is in this position.