Please help, end of my tether re ‘bullying’ situation

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I have 3 dds, aged 24, 22 and 18. All living at home currently (older two graduated and returned home).

Dd3 is autistic (but has never accepted the diagnosis). A few years ago almost overnight she developed a strong dislike/fear of dd1. This went on for 6 months then out of the blue dd3 messaged dd1 to say sorry. All was fine for a while. Then 18 months ago it happened again. Dd3 won’t come into a room if dd1 is there and has been calling her ‘it’ and ‘thing’ 😢

And yet dd3 claims her older sister is the bully. Dd1’s crimes are -

-apparently chasing dd3 with a knife - what actually happened was that dd1 was holding a fork and made stabbing motions by the side of her body in frustration. This was about a year ago but dd3 says she feels unsafe.

-recently dd1 and dd3 had a text exchange and dd1 said ‘all this drama and you can’t see that you’re autistic?’ Dd3 has taken great offence to this and said the comment was ‘disgusting’.

All of this sounds very petty written down and I should probably stay out of it but I want to support both of them especially dd1 who I don’t think has done much wrong.

Should add that dd1 is probably autistic too but hasn’t been diagnosed. She is quite an inflexible thinker and can have a passive aggressive side. But she does not deserve this treatment by her youngest sister.

Dd2 gets on ok with both her sisters.

I think it might be much, much harder to keep a diagnosis secret from a child now than it was 30 years ago. Quite apart from anything else, most special schools talk very openly with the children about their strengths and needs. What on earth did you say to the other two when they asked why their brother wasn't at the same school? And surely if they are NT they would have noticed there was something different about their brother?

Sounds like a generalisation. Based on how many teenagers? Bullying is often done covertly to avoid being observed. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but you can’t possibly judge this based only on what’s been said.

This is a weird form of projection. In addition to not pandering to DD3’s behaviour, I would also start calling this out all the time when she’s being nasty towards DD1. “Stop bullying your sister.” “You’re being a bully, stop it.” “She didn’t do anything to you, stop it.” And so on. And definitely do not answer the demands to know DD1’s every move. Since this doesn’t seem to be rooted in reality, going along with it is just fueling it.

Many people are trying to start a pile-on neglecting the fact that the eldest daughter is also autistic. These two young autistic women need to learn to tolerate each other, and right now the youngest is the intolerant one who is bullying her sister.

Problem here is you told her what is wrong with her, you didn’t need to do that

You can’t say that nowadays. Letting a child know about their diagnosis is not letting them know something is “wrong” with them.

That’s a negative way to frame it and as a pp said it’s unrealistic in today’s world to hide that information from a child let alone a teen.

Many would be furious if they reached 18 and found that information was withheld from them.

OP, your youngest is bullying your oldest by speaking of her in that manner. I wonder how she’d react if she was called “a thing”. It’s very worrying behaviour.

@justwannabeleftalone your post has made me slightly panicky. Dd3 hates the disgnosis so much, she says it’s a lie and that it’s ruined her life and her schooling. I have wondered on and off for years if we did the right thing by seeking a diagnosis and felt much guilt about it 😢

Please don't feel guilty. It's not the diagnosis itself, and everyone tries the best for their children with what they think is best at the time. I can understand where @bendmeoverbackwards is coming from as my DS wishes we never told him. From what I understand, it comes from a place of feeling different and alien and not worthy of anything. We never told him as such, I think actually his special needs teacher did in school because he didn't understand why he was in a special needs class. But I can only speak from my own experience. My DS is also 18 and autistic and longs for being considered 'normal' and that nothing is wrong with him. I tell him all the time there's nothing 'wrong' with him, but I think the constant trauma autistic people are subjected to, it's hard for them to believe anything else.

Believe me, 50 years of not knowing why I was different was far more harmful to me than getting a diagnosis.

I do think your older daughter has more skin in the game here than us recognised. Your younger daughter said a knife, your older daughter minimised, said it was a fork and just made some movements. I think you need to be listening to your youngest a little more.

Dd3 won’t see any doctors or health professionals. She says she is traumatised after the diagnosis. And that it’s my fault.

I really, really think she would benefit from talking to someone. She can be in denial all she likes but it won't help her long term. Even just someone to listen to what she's going through and to feel listened to. As she won't do that with you, it needs to be with a professional.

When they are all adults living in your house, their sisterly squabbles should be kept to themselves. They must learn to take responsibility for themselves and to regulate their feelings.
It’s no longer your job to police who is right and who is wrong and to tear yourself apart trying to find out who has done/said what and then to apportion blame. And to take sides or punish.
I don’t know why you are putting up with this nonsense at their age. Diagnosis or not, they need to learn basic manners and how to live without causing dramas.

If they can’t behave properly in your home and company then they must stay in their rooms and leave you in peace. You don’t want to know about it. They are no longer children.

Lay down the house rules very strongly OP. Let them know how disappointed you are in them. Have much higher expectations of their behaviour, Remind them they are old enough to leave home if they don’t like your house rules and if they can’t stick to them. Remind them of your right to peace in the home you provide for them. And you love them all equally and won’t listen to bad mouthing any more.

Home is a peaceful, happy place to live. We each have responsibility to keep it that way.
Discord is bad, - it affects everybody’s mental health adversely and will no longer be tolerated . So learn to get along (or live elsewhere.)
No bad manners or friction in your house.
No name calling or talking badly about others in the hosue.
No aggressive acts or threats of aggression.
No shouting
No squabbling in the house. Go elsewhere away from the home if you want to argue or talk a problem out.
Keep a lid on temper tantrums.
No telling tales to mum. She no longer wants to know and will no longer referee. Nobody gets involved in others’ squabbles and nobody takes sides.
Everybody remains impartial, respectful at all times and kind to others.
Stay cheerful and positive. If anybody feels moody or miserable they have a responsibility to not let it bring others in the household down. So stay in your room until you feel better.
If you don’t like or can’t adhere to the house rules, you are free to live elsewhere.

Totally agree. But I can’t physically drag her there. I’ve suggested online too.

She seems happy enough. She has a good relationship with dd3, they have a lot of laughs together. She finds dd1 less easy to deal with.

Because she’s 24. I get the financial aspect but if she’s 24 and not emotionally ready then you need to be working on that.

abd really because it sounds like they both need space. So the older one is the obvious one to move!

This sounds like a power struggle between two siblings who don't like each other and it sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other. It does come across like you are taking DD1's part over DD3, to be honest - and it kind of makes sense, if DD1 is a bit older and appears more emotionally mature, and DD3's behaviour is draining. But DD1 being older might also mean she's better able to disguise her dislike of her sister around others, and appear as though she isn't doing anything to wind her up when she actually may be doing subtle things others don't notice. Has DD1 ever apologised for the fork incident, or for the nasty comment about her sister's autism? Because these are not particularly mature behaviours either.

If neither is emotionally mature enough to act like adults, then I agree with those saying you need to lay some ground rules down if they are to all continue to live at home together, which includes civil behaviour - no names, and basic politeness. You can't stop DD3 leaving a room that DD1 is in, but you can say you will no longer tell her where DD1 is, and she will have to decide for herself where she wants to be. If she doesn't want to be where the rest of the family are, okay, but no making a big drama out of it. Even if you can't force a good relationship between them, you can impress on them that they are affecting others in the home, and that you see them as equally responsible for stopping the behaviour that is creating a bad atmosphere for everybody else.

I would refuse to do this. She is making you complicit in her thinking about her sister. Not fair to you or DD1 and it is manipulative behaviour which she needs to understand is not tolerated.

if they all have their own rooms then yes, they can have autonomy over who comes into their rooms ( exception being parents have the right to enter a room if they have concerns) but the rest of the house and communal spaces like the garden and cars are to be shared with politeness and consideration for others.

This, and agree that anyone who listens to the nonsense about dd1 being 'contaminated' without shutting dd3 is just as complicit in the bullying.
Why is it just dd1 that's contaminated?

Just repeating this excellent advice.

The autism is a red herring here in many ways. There need to be some rules about shared house living and how we treat each other in a shared space. If adults can’t adhere to those, they stay in their rooms or they leave home.

Thank you everyone so much, lots to think about.

Dd3 will also not join the family dinner table if dd1 is there. She will either eat later or ask me to bring her dinner to another room. Which I’ve been doing for an easy life. I realise this is compounding the problem and enabling the behaviour but I’m so drained with it all and want to try and maintain a calm atmosphere. It takes strength to make changes.

I understand she doesn’t want to speak to someone and agree you can’t force her (and trying to would likely do more harm than good).

That being said, I would look into family therapy if you can afford it. You don’t need all members of the family to be present (you can actually do family therapy with only one person). At its core, FT is about recognising and changing patterns in the family.

It sounds like you recognise that some of the things you’re doing for an easy life, which is definitely understandable, are keeping the problems going. Therapy could help you to think of ways to break these patterns. It would also give you space to not have to be the problem solver all the time, which sounds exhausting.

Some services offer lower rates, if finances are an issue.

@pinkbird78 we tried family therapy about 6 months ago. It was a disaster. Dd1 and dd2 were both on board but dd3 refused to engage. The therapist tried her best to get dd3 to engage without success. Then dd3 was furious when she found out we’d been talking about her.

I do see a counsellor on an individual basis though just for myself as and when I need to.

In my view DD3 needs to develop a life for herself outside your house. If she's 18 and not been in work or education for 2 years she's not coping and she's projecting her disappointment about not being able to live up to her expectations of how she expects her life to be onto her sister. It's all DD1's fault that DD3 can't get a job or go to college because she's so threatening.... If she's that threatening why doesn't DD3 get a job outside the house to avoid her rather than just hiding in her bedroom and bossing her mum around? Try not to let any of your children run your house rather than you, otherwise they'll never move out.

I guess you can't force an adult to eat with the family, but you can set a boundary that she then has to get her own food and take it to another room herself rather than make you run round after her.

I would absolutely stop pandering to this drama from DD3. No telling her which room her sister is in , dinner is on the table for everyone so you either join us or you don’t . It’s ludicrous you are so stressed by 3 adult women in your house . Where is their dad in all this , what does he say and does he help .

Would it be worth trying again with someone new and explaining to the therapist that dd3 doesn’t want to engage, but you and dd1 and 2 will?

It doesn’t really matter if she’s furious, she’s entitled to feel how she feels and you’re entitled to do what’s best for you.