AIBU ejecting mentally ill DD 29 from the house

[Baabaablackshee]

I have two DD's 27 and 29. Divorced when they were little, have been a single parent trying to hold down a job and look after them for most of their lives.

27 y/o diagnosed with autism, exhibits challenging (but not violent) behavior.

29 y/o is bipolar and has psychosis. Last night's DD29 got violent and I had to call the police twice. I am too scared to have her in the house.

Her cousin had cannabis induced psychosis and ended up murdering his flatmate.

DD 29 blames me for all her problems. I don't argue with her and have apologised repeatedly even where I don't agree with the facts but she is developing a visceral hatred of me and her sister. I was so scared yesterday.

Police eventually took her to my friend's Airbnb but they can only keep her for two days. She has stayed with my mother and other family members in the past but this always breaks down.

She is off her meds and refusing medical help for dear of being sectioned. I've arranged private individual and family therapy but she refuses to attend the family therapy.

If I don't take her back she will be homeless on Monday.

I don't know what to do for the best.

[Needaholidayyesterday]

@bellac11

For people mentioning sectioning, its almost impossible to get a hospital bed or for the system to recognise that someone needs detention.

We have people circling around police custody, then police detention, then taken to general hospital for assessment, then they discharge themselves, no one seems to stop this, then round and round again every single time theres an incident

Perhaps its different and more positive in other parts of the country. As OP says above she refused to go to the hospital with the paramedics, if the police detain her it will only be to see if the MH team will come out and assess, sometimes they wont even do that, other times they do but will then discharge their duties to the day teams and as I said round and round it goes.

OP is not responsible for that or for waiting for the inevitable attack on her or her daughter

I helped a friend in similar situation

it was over a weekend so crisis team unfortunately were next to useless. Weekdays is better but MH doesn’t see a calendar

if you can get her to the local mental health unit, stage a polite sit in until they find doctors and a bed.

it worked for us

[Hattie888]

Hi, I just came across your thread. We are experiencing quite similar issues with my 42 year old sister. She lives independently and is very isolated! She has a history of long term physical illness and MH difficulties. She experienced steroid induce psychosis 4 years ago and sadly we had to make the very difficult decision to have her sectioned. She made a reasonable recovery with the right meds but has been very hostile to my mum and me ever since….blaming us for what happened and very much controlling the relationship on her terms (we only did the best to keep her safe but she doesn’t see it that way!) 4 years on and she is beginning to show signs of manic behaviour and dysfunctional thoughts again! we are so worried about history repeating itself but she is in denial and won’t get help (she has even got back in touch with her only friend out of the blue and even she can’t persuade her). We feel at our wits end and it’s so tiring to deal with the rude and aggressive side of her and is just developing more and more!!

I just wanted to say I know exactly how it feels from this side of things, the worry, guilt stress it cause the family members involved.
can I ask how things panned out for you?! I hope you’re all doing better now.

❤️

[Baabaablackshee]

Thank you all for responding. I really appreciate the support and advice.

[Diverseopinions]

You have to itemise the threatening behaviour and tell the Psychiatric personnel or police exactly what you are worried about, I think. The other information is not as relevant, so clear it to one side.

You need to say what behaviour you fear. Also say what you would want to achieve from her going to a Place of Safety. I'm presuming the issues are:

Her aggressive behaviour - if you believe she behaves in a dangerous way.

The concerns relating to what will happen is she isn't going to willingly take her meds.

[bellac11]

@Isahlo

So if the police take her, they will more than likely take her to your local place of safety 136 suite for a mental health assessment she’s unlikely to spend a night in the cells

Sorry for answering back to front but didnt see this.

Unfortunately it is way more than likely that she would spend a night in the cells because there is no place of safety available, also waiting for MH services to send out the right person who may well never turn up or who goes away once the patient says they dont want an assessment /dont want to talk to the assessor.

[bellac11]

I know the process thank you, we have to ask for this a lot and its often refused.

But asking for a MHA is not the same as 'getting someone sectioned' in the way people write about it on here.

You'd think it was the Victorian times the way people talk about it on forums, getting their relative packed away in a van.

[Isahlo]

@bellac11

Exactly, I wonder what universe people live in when I (often) read on here 'cant you get them sectioned'?

A relative can request a mental health act assessment, by contacting their local AMHP team or Out of hours social services team
whilst it’s the approved social worker/or amhp depending on when they qualified and the s12 doctors who ultimately make the choice friends and family as well as professionals can request the assessment
you can also take someone to a&e where they’ll be triaged then seen by a liason psychiatry team and potentially offered a MHAA

[Isahlo]

@Baabaablackshee

I did call the crisis team and they spoke to her but it only made things worse. Paramedics then came to the house and spent over an hour with her. She refused to go to hospital with them. The police said they would arrest her (as a last resort) but I didn't want her spending the night in the cells.

So if the police take her, they will more than likely take her to your local place of safety 136 suite for a mental health assessment she’s unlikely to spend a night in the cells

[bellac11]

@GeorgeorRuth

I would have her sectioned for her own sake as well as yours. If something happens while she is off her meds she will have even more to deal with
AFAIK only doctors can request a section. 2 doctors have to agree Family can't get a relative sectioned.

Exactly, I wonder what universe people live in when I (often) read on here 'cant you get them sectioned'?

[GeorgeorRuth]

I would have her sectioned for her own sake as well as yours. If something happens while she is off her meds she will have even more to deal with
AFAIK only doctors can request a section. 2 doctors have to agree Family can't get a relative sectioned.

[bellac11]

For people mentioning sectioning, its almost impossible to get a hospital bed or for the system to recognise that someone needs detention.

We have people circling around police custody, then police detention, then taken to general hospital for assessment, then they discharge themselves, no one seems to stop this, then round and round again every single time theres an incident

Perhaps its different and more positive in other parts of the country. As OP says above she refused to go to the hospital with the paramedics, if the police detain her it will only be to see if the MH team will come out and assess, sometimes they wont even do that, other times they do but will then discharge their duties to the day teams and as I said round and round it goes.

OP is not responsible for that or for waiting for the inevitable attack on her or her daughter

[Loungingstevens]

Op. I cannot imagine what you have lived.
and the despair and concern you must have now for yourself and both daughters.

of course it is not fair to mention what happened with her cousin- you can mention whatever you like. And I understand why you did. You are aware that serious violence is a real possibility.

I’m not an expert but in my experience talking therapies aren’t helpful when people are in psychosis or really when biopolar.
people say she needs to grow up or learn. I don’t think it’s about that. She is ill.

but it obviously reaches a point where you can’t live with it any more.
I dont know the rules around sectioning someone but I would imagine that to be preferable than homeless (when so vulnerable).

I really hope something materialises that offers the way forward. Or that she takes her medication and that it has a positive impact.

[junebirthdaygirl]

I would have her sectioned for her own sake as well as yours. If something happens while she is off her meds she will have even more to deal with.
I have experience of this in my own family and l am fully convinced that when someone with bipolar, needing meds, goes off their medication there is no point in talking to them it's hospital time and that's it. She needs at this stage to be taking responsibility for her own illness by taking her meds so she needs to see that if she doesn't she will end up in hospital. You cannot for your own sanity be dealing with this. It's for her safety too . So my advice is have her sectioned. End of story.

[ThreeLocusts]

So sorry OP it's come to this. You've tried to protect her for 11 years since she became technically an adult, hats off for that.

It sounds to me like you need to try something new, starting with dissolving the shared household. How this is best done I don't know, but I wouldn't blame you if you asked the police to arrest her, either.

A very good friend of mine had to get the police involved to get her 18 year old son into hospital when his psychosis became acute. It was horrible for her, but he finally got treatment. Wishing you strength.

[BattenburgDonkey]

Honestly if she comes back now you are just repeating the same cycle, nothing will change and your other daughter isn’t safe. If you don’t allow her back something will change, nobody can promise it will be a good change but surely it’s with a chance that it may be better than sitting in the same thing that doesn’t work?

[TwowaystoUrmston]

I agree with flowertoday, she needs urgent and intensive treatment and support which she is unfortunately unlikely to get if she comes back to you. Our services are now so stretched that only the most urgent/extreme circumstances will get her the help she needs and you need to step back to allow that to happen. Please stop seeing this as a choice between what's best for you and DD(27) and what's best for DD(29) because not having DD(29) back home is actually what's best for everyone.

[BattenburgDonkey]

Such an awful situation, I wish I could offer help OP. But I think it’s absolutely ok not to allow her back in, she can never reach rock bottom if you don’t let her get there. If you let her back how could things possibly get better right now?

[saraclara]

Your other daughter matters too. And if the older one is violent to her, then she has to be your priority (along with yourself - you matter as well).

[GeorgeorRuth]

God I feel for you OP, its a horrible position to be in. I don't think many realise just how little support there is for people or families of people with MH problems. Those saying homelessness will force the issues, no it won't, a large majority of homeless have MH problems. It just kicks the problem out of plain sight so it doesn't get dealt with.

I really wish you well .

[Baabaablackshee]

@Iwanttoslowdown

I think you already know the answer to this and it’s to let her grow up and make her own choices. You have done a great job to date of protecting her, but long term she has to know that violence has consequences. You give her notice that if there is violence or the threat of violence again she will be thrown out.

Thank you.

[Iwanttoslowdown]

I think you already know the answer to this and it’s to let her grow up and make her own choices. You have done a great job to date of protecting her, but long term she has to know that violence has consequences. You give her notice that if there is violence or the threat of violence again she will be thrown out.

[Baabaablackshee]

@flowertoday

You sound like a great mum to have coped so well for both of your daughters needs for so long.
From what you have said your older daughter is clearly not well, and is a risk to herself and others. In those circumstances consideration of an admission to hospital ( under a section of the mental health act if necessary) or other crisis help is indicated ( as hard as that sounds and is).
If she is homeless come monday , this will force the issue of her getting help. Taking her back home may kick the can down the road, but won't help her or you, or your other daughter stay safe in the longer term.
If you are concerned about her mental health there should be a number you can call in your area. Or failing that 111 will be able to advise / put you in touch with the right service.
💐🦋

Thank you. Really helpful. 🙏🏾

[Baabaablackshee]

Thank you. I do not feel safe with her in the house and she has attacked her sister in the past.

[Baabaablackshee]

@MrsNobodyMM

I wouldn't turn her away - she's your daughter and in dire need of support.

I think it's unfair to mention her cousin - two completely separate people.

It seems you've made your decision anyway.

She does need support but I'm not sure I can provide it while keeping myself and my other daughter safe from l from her.

[Baabaablackshee]

@Wibbly1008

Can you call the crisis team? Or is she under a specialist department at the hospital you can contact to inform them of her spiralling? I am so sorry you are going through this OP, must be terrifying.

I did call the crisis team and they spoke to her but it only made things worse. Paramedics then came to the house and spent over an hour with her. She refused to go to hospital with them. The police said they would arrest her (as a last resort) but I didn't want her spending the night in the cells.