offshoot from "why do we have children?"-effect on marriage

[fallala]

I see many have mentioned the inloveness they feel about their child/children.
Does anyone else feel this has actually spoiled their relationship with their partner because the love for the partner is so tame in comparison? I have definately found this to be a real downside of having children.

I used to think I loved Dh but compared with how I feel about my kids , forget it. I think he knows it too, thought I obviously don't express it.

[fallala]

thanks lucy, you are right, I know I don't really want to be " absorbed into "a relationship if I am truthful. In a way that was what surpried me about my kids - I was instantly absorbed

[lucy123]

I've only just started reading this thread and I too am quite amazed by some of these harmonious marital relationships.

falalla - don't judge your own relationship based on other people's though. I feel I have a good relationship with dp, but I don't think either of us would die for one another and in many ways we're happier that way. It's not just about being with the right person, its about who you are too and some of us are more able than others to be completely absorbed into a relationship.

Anyway I hope you manage to work out what you do want.

[fallala]

Droile I am very interested in your comments.
Re children - you either get it or you don't. That is quite brilliant. I will quote you on that in my day to day life.

I am overswhelmed with love for my kids but NOT an obsessed mum who can't see her kids faults - I don't think one necessarily goes with the other.

I am coming to the conclusion I just have a crap marriage and having kids is what has revealed it to me. Oh bugger

I am astonished and envious of those of you who deeply deeply love your husbands. I often find myself dreaming that he might bugger off and leave me. I guess that is what our friends in America call a red flag.

[Clarinet60]

Sorry, that was just a load of outpouring of my own musings.
Thanks for the message about the hard work and commitment - it made me feel better.

[Clarinet60]

Thanks susan. Yes, he does feel the same way, although we don't express it as frankly to each other as I have on here. I think he feels it's the natural way too. I suppose it's the distinction between family and someone you have chosen to spend your life with, but to whom you are not related. In a way, I feel rather hoist by my own petard (sp) here, since I have always said that if only people could treat their spouse just like a blood relative, there would be fewer divorces. By that, I mean that you wouldn't divorce your mother or your sister. You would still love your child if he/she had committed a murder, but if your husband was unfaithful, and went so far as to have a child with another woman, you would probably divorce him (but may still love him). A friend of mine has always maintained that you no longer love someone who doesn't love you. I've always said she was wrong, and have had many instances of unrequited love in my youth. But now, I find myself eating my words. If DH wanted to leave me, I would find it relatively simple to stop loving him. If one of my children did the same, my love would survive. I'm very confused, but I suppose I'm trying to say that they are different loves, incomparable really, and at this point in time, my children are the ones I wouldn't want to live without.

[susanmt]

Droile - this has been going round in my head at night too
I was thinking - in many ways you are doing much 'better' than me. For me it is no efort to love my husband, and so in some ways I don't have to try. Whereas for you it is something you really have to work at, and in doing so you are showing a huge commitment to your husband and family. Love isn't just a feeling (though it can be a very powerful one) - it is an action too. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is mainly an action - love is something you DO! You are showing a huge amount of love by the commitment you are showing just by being there in your family. I suppose that is something I take for granted!
Do you know if your husband feels the same way? You suggested earlier in the thread that he is useless, and I wondered if he knew how you feel, and if he feels the same way? Have you talked it over with him?

[Clarinet60]

cathncait, I don't think your friends should find you weird. I think your sort of marriage is the way I thought it would be when I was walking down the aisle. Life disabused me of this romantic notion, and having children taught me that there is a new and (IME) much greater love called mother love, but I am glad marriage does work out like this for some people.
Funnily enough, of all the threads I still think about in the middle of the night (and there have been some humdingers lately, the circumcism one for instance, phewee,) this one still has me pondering, flabberghasted (in a good way) into the small hours.
Lots of people I know wouldn't cross the street, much less die for their partners (not that I know some sad people) so it is with amazement and stunned pleasure that I digest the sentiments of you ladies.
I was feeling quite pleased that DH and I are getting on better lately, and may even be able to last out till the boys grow up, but I can see that we still have one heck of a way to go. Sad.

[cathncait]

Droile - I think that you are as 'normal' as anyone else. Everyone feels how they feel about things and you can't change that. You are what you are. All relationships are different. I know that I think my marriage is 'the way it's sposed to be' (whatever that is) but many of my friends think we are weird. Since when is there a 'right' way to feel about anything in life?

[susanmt]

Yes Droile I am lucky. Exceptionally so. Apart from his unhealthy obsession with motor racing (he is sleeping on the sofa at the moment waiting for some qualifying session on the other side of the world to start), he is perfect.
Don't beat yourself up. You just have a different take on things from me. Anything which makes us examine our relationships is good, if it helps us to develop and grow.

[Ghosty]

A very interesting discussion and a civilised one
Susanmt ... your comparison using your mum and dad was excellent ... My mother always said that for her my dad always came first. As we were growing up she was always there for us 150% and I can not fault her devotion to us as a mother but it was always clear to us how much our parents loved eachother.
They are now in their 60s ... my mum isn't too well and they are absolutely devoted to eachother. They love us all wholly and unconditionally but their love for eachother is stronger than ever now that we have 'flown the nest'
Don't get me wrong ... I love my son with a passion ... I would die for him ... whenever I look at him my heart swells up so it feels like it will burst BUT I totally agree with Cathncait that he is 'on loan' to me. I am blessed that he is a part of my life ... but that is it he is a 'part' of my life. My DH is my past, present and future and I feel that DS is a wonderful, beautiful, miraculous bonus to that.
Again, sorry for this lengthy post ... no excuse this time ... it is 11.30am and so no alcohol has been had today!

[Clarinet60]

yes, it makes sense. I just can't imagine feeling that way about a man after living with one. You must be very lucky. Sometimes the only way I can not murder DH (joking folks!) is by imagining the way his mother must have loved him when he was a child. He was her little boy, and that is a special kind of love. I try to see him through her eyes, but that is what it takes for me to pull back and love him properly. Perhaps I should think about getting a divorce. I thought it was more normal to feel as I do, but perhaps I was wrong.

[susanmt]

Yes, I would die for my husband. I would also die for my children.
I do 'get' it with my children, they are wonderful, amazing people and I am so privelidged and so lucky to have them. I would do anything for them. Maybe my love for them and my love for my husband is closer than yours (Droile) for your husband and children. You said in an earlier post that your love for your boys outstrips your love for your husband my a million miles. My love for my husband maybe outstrips my love for my children, but not by that much. It is more, but not so much more. Does that make any sense?

[Lindy]

I think the types of love that we feel for our children and our DH/DP are totally different - as Slug says, when you choose your partner you are making a reasoned, adult choice about who you will (hopefully) spend the rest of your life with it - you don't 'choose' your child in the same way, you get what you give birth to. I don't think trying to think about what you would do in a hypothetical situation is necessarily 'proof' of which love is stronger, I would imagine human instinct is to save the weakest person. I was once in a situation where a viscious dog attacked my younger brother and, I am ashamed to say, I was rooted to the spot with fear and did nothing.

To use Droile's expression I suppose I don't 'get it' - although I am not quite sure what that means, I am often quite astounded by the 'blindness' of some parents love for their child and their inability to see that he/she might have some nasty 'faults' - to me that doesn't mean I don't love my DS any less, but I can very clearly see that he is not perfect. Has anyone else seen the 'sandpit' thread which refers to a very obsessed mother?

And another thought .... if we do let ourselves become totally obsessed might we turn out to be one of those difficult mothers to our adult child that we often see complained about here on mumsnet?

[Clarinet60]

Yes, I suppose. TBH, I'm struggling to answer/explain. It's like trying to speak english to someone who only understands japanese. I can only fall back on this inadequate phrase again: either you 'get' children, or you don't. I suppose the difference might be the same as that between childless people and those with children. It's as if suddenly, all the secrets of the universe are yours; you know things you didn't know before. Someone once said to me that it's the first time you love someone more than you love yourself. I would die for my boys and I would (try) and take torture in their place. Can you honestly say you would do that for your husband? I'd like to think I could do that for him, but I would hesitate - I would blanch. But if it was to save my boys, I would not hesitate. Not for one second.

[susanmt]

Not aimed at cathcait - sorry it reads that way. AImed at everyone really!

[susanmt]

Cathncait - just what I wanted to say, but said more eloquently!
To put it another way round, would you expect (or have expected) your Mum to love you more than she loves (or loved) your Dad? And do you expect your children to have this connection with you? Just trying to get more of an idea of what the folk who feel different to me actually feel.

[katierocket]

Cathncait> thought that was a lovely way of putting it

[slug]

Cathancait, I know what you mean. However much I love the sluglet, I don't know what sort of adult she'll turn into. I may well dislike her then. However, I CHOSE dh.

[cathncait]

I have to agree with susanmt, lindy & ghosty I'm afraid - that is that my dh is my 'favourite person in the world'. But having said that my dd is also my favourite. ok, that sounds stupid...I mean that my dh is with me for life and I feel like my dd is on loan. That she isn't mine whereas dh is. Does that make sense? So its not that I love them more or less than each other..I love them differently.
Sorry if that sounds like some weird rubbish

[lou33]

My dh gave up smoking 4 years ago and is addicted to the nicotine gum now!

[SueW]

You're right Holly02. I have given up the nagging, gentle persuasion. Every so often (about once a year) he'll decide to do some exercise which means over-exerting himeslef on a rowing machine to prove how fit he is - I can't watch as I feel sure he's going to keel over with a heart attack.

It's very sad but I feel like I have stated my position, I've told him over and over how I'd like us to spend our lives together for a bit longer than the next dozen years but he is very 'live' for the moment (which unfortunately doesn't mean that he gets the most out of life IMO, just that he does what he wants to).

[Holly02]

Sue W, my dh smokes almost a packet a day, pops painkillers like there's no tomorrow, and has a fairly high-stress job. He's 43 and I also find myself wondering how long he'll be around for. Don't think you can really persuade them - it's something they have to do for themselves. I've tried being supportive every time he's tried to quit smoking, and I've nagged him to try a naturopath or some alternative treatment other than painkillers, but he really doesn't take much notice of what I say. I hate to think what years of taking strong painkillers will do to his health. Frustrating, but it's really up to them to take care of themselves.

[SueW]

My MIL had the same view as susanmt. I have to admit that I suspect my DD will be around a lot longer than DH and perhaps this affects the way I feel about him. A history of heart disease in his family, his father dead at 51yo and DH strongly suspects he will go the same way and does little to make a difference - drinks too much, eats high sat fat diet and smokes heavily. Also his mother died of stomach cancer in her early 60s.

My family however has a history of living well into their 70s, 80s and 90s (barring accidents). So I sort of feel that 13 years from now, I'll be on my own - with DH dead and DD just heading off to start her own life.

How does anyone presuade their DH to value his life?

[Clarinet60]

Perhaps in those who really fall for their children hard, there is an example of natures way of ensuring that we put up with pregnancy, birth (ouch) b/feeding (more ouch), etc. I can't imagine wearing any of these if I didn't feel as OTT as I do. I know that it's totally missing in some women, so perhaps susanmt & lindy & ghosty represent a middle ground. TBH, I don't think I could do what I do if I didn't feel as I feel.

[Clarinet60]

Then what, lindy? Wa-hay and off round the world I go, I've always thought. Only joking. Or am I?

I have to admit to being one of the obsessed mums, although I do love my time off from them and wish I had more of it. TBH, I think there is something about children that you either 'get' or you don't, a bit like a joke.