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Violent 9 year old.
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EmotionalWreckingBall · 15/08/2022 20:09

Please be kind.

I'm having a particularly bad night with my son. I can't tell him off at all or he flies into a rage & hits/slaps/kicks/bites me. If he can't get at me for whatever reason then he goes for his sister (5)

I just feel really low tonight. I'm struggling with my MH in general.

Please can anybody just talk to me?
I went to ring the Samaritans but I'm scared of the judgement.

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MissMaple82 · 15/08/2022 20:25

You won't get any judgement from Samaritans! Ring them.. do you have a local Homestart? Contact them, they will provide a support worker to work with both you and your child. I've had similar things and support, it helped both of us.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 15/08/2022 20:29

Thank you MissMaple I did use Homestart years ago. Nothing gets any better. I'm glad things helped you & hope things are ok now.

I have a support worker for him through the HV team but they disappear during the 6 week holidays. Last year the holidays were tough too.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 15/08/2022 21:16

It's stopped for tonight. So that one was 3 hours. Doesn't sound like much but it feels like a lot when you are being hurt. & I imagine it feels much longer for him too.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 16/08/2022 06:25

Is anybody else there for a chat?

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MiniTheMinx · 16/08/2022 06:33

Does he have a diagnosis of anything?

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 16/08/2022 06:54

Hi MiniTheMinx No he doesn't. They recently said at school that maybe there is something there but because he's absolutely fine at school the HV said they can't/won't pursue it at their end, so school said they will start the process in September.

School Senco has meetings with myself & HV that's the only reason they are involved, not due to anything happening at school.

Although, saying that, there was once in year 3 where he was in such a state at arriving at school, & refusing to go in to school, that his teacher came & had a chat with him. & That happened twice more near the end of year 4 (the term that's just ended)

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Eupraxia · 16/08/2022 10:07

Your situation may meet the threshold for targeted suppot with Early Help, from Childrens Services.

Google your county council early help referral and see if you can self report. If not tell your GP specifically that you want a referral to family services, they can make the referral.

EH do dome brilliant parenting courses that help parents manage very challenging behaviour like this. There is no judgement attached, so please don't eorry about that.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 16/08/2022 10:27

Thanks Eupraxia. I already get help from children's services (HV) I've been to the GP a few times.

I've done all of the online parenting courses that are available (& Solihull in person before covid) my son did the 'Feelings' group in person & has done a meditation course at school, also an Art therapy course.

We are waiting on another course the name escapes me now but it's myself & my son who do it together.

I just wanted somebody to talk to. I find it so hard dealing with all this alone.

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Bunda · 16/08/2022 10:31

Are you sticking to a routine in the holidays? Sorry you're all going this x

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 16/08/2022 10:41

Yes Bunda. Thank you. We have a chart to show what we are doing that day/week & also a behaviour chart. The alarm is set for 30 mins later as it's the holidays but he's always up at the usual time anyway.
Apart from when he's kicked off like last night, he's only been late to bed twice.

My 'Safety plan' for the holidays was simply 'Put him in as many clubs as you can'. I'm not having him in a club every day though so he does 2 a week.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 16:38

I know this thread is very quiet but I've had another really bad day (or, few hours. He was fine this morning) so I'll just write it out anyway.

He went to the drawer looking for a knife saying that he wants to murder me. He asked me to lean down a bit so that he can get better access to kick my stomach. He said he hates me & I'm not his mother & he will only be happy when I am dead.
He stood & listed which actions (violence) he does to make me cry quickly, & which actions take longer to make me cry... With no emotion, as if he was talking about a science experiment or something.

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NatsC84 · 21/08/2022 16:49

I didn't want to read and run but I have no experience or advice unfortunately. My heart hurts for you.

Please call the Samaritans, they will not judge. You need to get him help. You cannot put up with this. He is not happy as much as you aren't.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 16:53

I know he's not. It must be my fault. I must be such a bad parent that I've made him like this. I have a meeting with 'Family first' next week but I txt his SW last week (Wed) after another bad day & she didn't answer.

Thanks NatsC84 I don't want to ring the Samaritans anymore, it's just how my life is.

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MolliciousIntent · 21/08/2022 16:54

Are there other children in the house? He sounds like he's a threat to your safety. I would call the police, and SS.

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Thesearmsofmine · 21/08/2022 16:59

OP this sounds horrendous for you all. I would also call not text his social worker or if you feel you need that help today ring the on call social worker. This isn’t you, I imagine there is far more to this situation and you all need help as it sounds like things are escalating.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 17:05

Thank you both. Yes, things are escalating. He attacked me in the park the other day (something he's never done before)

He's calm now. He's in his room. I held the door closed (I know I shouldn't)

He's ok. We are ok now.

Well, we aren't, but I mean the violence has stopped.
I want him to be ok, I don't want him to feel like this. My other child is 5.

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MolliciousIntent · 21/08/2022 17:10

OP you need some serious help, and with the state of public services at the moment, you are not going to get it unless you kick up the most almighty stink.

You need to start making a real nuisance of yourself to SS. Your son is a danger to his sibling, and to you. You will not get the help you need unless SS genuinely believe you might be about to dump him on their doorstep.

Call the police, call the GP, call the safeguarding lead at school, call the HV, call social services. Call every day. Describe the behaviour in detail. Keep reiterating that he's threatening you with knives and is a real risk to your safety.

Where is his dad?

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 17:17

I will do something. I'm exhausted. I'm just doing tea for the little one, she's been ignored for 3 hours.

He's never threatened me with a knife until today.

I txt his dad like I do most times but he reminded me that he's not nearby so can't do anything other than speak to him on the phone. So I stopped txt him.

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Choconuttolata · 21/08/2022 17:33

If he is escalating to that level you need to social care line directly and explain the situation to them if you cannot get through to your social worker as they can contact them or the team lead. His behaviour is also a risk to his younger sibling which is a concern. If it escalates to the point that he gets hold of a knife then phone the police for immediate support. In the meantime secure all sharp objects knives, tools etc... in a locked area he cannot access. Do the same for medications because his behaviour is impulsive and he is clearly unhappy, this will reduce the risk of him getting hold of anything. Book an emergency appointment with the GP for him and yourself (separately for you to access support too) as it sounds like he needs an urgent assessment for support and they can refer to services like clinical psychology and help escalate to local services.

In the meantime try to think about triggers for this level of behaviour, what sets it off? What are the warning signs that it is about to escalate? What are the signs that he is getting more agitated? Is there anything you can do to de-escalate before it gets to that point or once he is in the red zone? Is there anything you can do to remove yourself and your dd from the situation when he is seeing red to protect yourselves and allow him space to calm down. If appropriate think about how you can address the situation later when he is calm to discuss his feelings about what happened to help him identify when he is getting angry and think about what he can do when he starts to feel like that. Help him find the tools to self calm. Explain if appropriate how his behaviour leaves you feeling in simple terms, your sadness. Let him know that you love him, but that you do not like his behaviour.

My son is autistic and has meltdowns, I have found starting to implement some of the above has helped reduce frequency and duration of his episodes. I find the 5P approach helpful.

It is very stressful, sending strength and hugs xx

5papproach.co.uk/index.html

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newtb · 21/08/2022 17:53

Just wondering if you've looked at thé criteria for PDA, a type of autism. DD used to have violent meltdowns, but only at home. Might be worth a look.

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MolliciousIntent · 21/08/2022 18:08

I think he needs to go and live with his dad for a bit.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 18:45

MolliciousIntent That isn't an option. The SW tried to get him involved in the CAFF but he point blank refused to even speak to her.

Thanks newt I hope your daughter is doing better now?
I did look that up years ago & thought it rang a bell, so I will have another look.
It's hard when you have everybody telling you that it's 'nothing' & 'You just have to be tougher on him'.

Thanks Choconuttolata. We don't have a social worker just a support worker. I'm going to call them tomorrow, I've had no contact with her since July 25th. How is that support?!

Unfortunately when I say that I love him but don't like his behaviour, he gets more distressed & says that the behaviour is a part of him so I don't like him.

It's any 'little' upset that sets him off. Telling him not to do something/to try it a different way etc, or today he was doing something with his sis & he snapped at her so I spoke to him about that & he was off for 3 hours. I feel like my choices are accept this behaviour & never 'Tell him off' again, or continue to pull him up on his behaviour & accept that this is the consequence.

I try to talk to him after but he just says nothing. Burys his head & says 'I don't know' to everything.

Today was slightly different (obviously with the knife) but also because he calmed down VERY quickly, but soon started up again. That's not usual. Usually once he's 'Up' at that level he stays up until the end.

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Choconuttolata · 21/08/2022 20:41

It sounds like he is very sensitive to any criticism of his behaviour, interesting that he takes it that challenging his behaviour means that you reject him and do not love him. Positive reinforcement with you increasing the amount of praise and positive feedback for the behaviours he does that you do want him to do, no matter how small may help, a good rule of thumb is 10 positive feedback comments to every 1 negative comment about his behaviour.

Set clear boundaries, lay out house rules in writing about the behaviours you will not accept and consequences and be consistent with them. When he escalates stay calm, keep your voice low. When his brain is flooded with adrenaline and he is seeing red he cannot respond rationally so just stick to simple instructions like "I would like you to go to your room until you calm down" then leave him until he does, if he will not leave the room remove yourself and your dd instead. Once he has calmed down then you can talk about consequences in a calm manner and strategies, my son has now learnt to use deep breathing and a sensory ball to squeeze to help him calm, but still needs an adult to remind him start to breathe. If he is not able to self calm safely in a room on his own then you have to think about removing objects that he might hurt himself or someone else with. It is quite scary for them to have such extreme emotions so staying calm as the adult however hard is important as it helps them feel safe. They are in a storm and you are the lighthouse to help guide them back to shore.

He sounds very unhappy, behaviour is always a symptom not the cause. Remember the root of this may not be anything to do with you, often we lash out at those closest to us when the root cause of our unhappiness is something else, like his awareness of his relationship with his Dad now that he is getting older. Even if you do not have an allocated social worker please phone the local children's services tomorrow to ask for more advice and support, with threats of violence from him they need to take this seriously.

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Choconut · 21/08/2022 21:07

Gosh OP I really don't think anyone would judge you, there is obviously something serious going on for him and it's obviously getting more difficult to handle as he gets older. Does he like the holiday club? If so then I would definitely consider putting him in more. It might actually help him as there will be more routine if he is going more rather then him not knowing if he is going or not.

It's unlikely to be your fault that he is unhappy IMO, this behaviour doesn't sound like it's in the realms of 'normal', I wouldn't be surprised if he was diagnosed with autism which often becomes more and more apparent as they get older.

I agree with trying to look carefully at each incident and seeing if you can work out the triggers. Tired? Hungry? Over stimulated? A change of plans? Also is there anything that can be used to calm him - videos he might like to watch on a tablet for example.

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EmotionalWreckingBall · 21/08/2022 21:14

Thanks Choconuttolata Your posts are really helpful.

I give him positive feedback all the time, loads of cuddles as he loves those, the 1-10 is a good thing to think about.

We have a reward chart & I do absolutely follow through & always have done, Eg if I tell him he's missed a day out then he misses a day out, no question. His dad on the other hand threatens & then doesn't follow through (he admits that himself)

We have the house rules on the wall. When I say 'That behaviour is not acceptable' He spends a lot of his time staring me straight in the eye saying 'What are you gonna do? How are you gonna stop me?' etc.

The removing ourselves is where things become difficult. The whole downstairs is open plan & if he can see me then he goes for me, it's as simple as that. So that leaves the 2 bedrooms & the bathroom upstairs as the only rooms with a door.

I move myself & my daughter upstairs/to a corner of a room but he is on me & won't stop. The only way I can get him to stop is holding the door closed & his SW has asked me not to do that so I havn't, I've just been putting my daughter in my room/in a corner & standing there like a bouncer & taking the beating.

He has HUGE feelings about everything. He's always been emotional but then so am I.
He is unhappy, he must be, I just want him to be happy & 'At peace' within himself. I encourage him to try breathing/hitting a pillow, anything really apart from hitting me!

He's always had the very minimal stuff in his bedroom as everything gets thrown. Obviously other places in the house he can access anything & anything he can get his hands on gets thrown.

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