Toilet training quandry at bedtime - any suggestions?

[FrancesJ]

Here's a query - was wondering if anyone has any ideas or suggestions that might help me out of present predicament? Predicament follows:

I'm currently in the process of potty training my 27 mnth old. Everything's been going swimmingly during the day - we're really happy to wee on potty/loo seat when suggested (not forced or anything - lots of praise when do and so forth) and frequently do so (although to be fair, we're also quite happy to wee on floor/in panties/on partner if potty not proffered when appropriate). My problem is at bedtime. She uses the loo, I put her into bed, story read, settled down under sheets. I go downstairs. Ten minutes later, calls of 'Mummy' and she's jumping up and down, pointing at nappy area and making wee-wee noises (not a great talker). We go to bathroom, sit on loo seat - she sits enthroned going red in the face and making loud grunting noises (caught this from partner, I think, not that I've watched). A few drops of wee might be pushed out. Then trainer pants back on, hands washed, 'bye-bye' said to wee. Back into bed (no story this time). I go downstairs. Ten minutes later...'Mummmeeeeee'......and it all starts again, this time with no wee, but same grunting noises!

I've had this, pretty much every night for two weeks now (since training started) and it's gone on for about two hours (during which time, she's probably really wanted, and done, a 'proper' wee once). Only ends either if I get into bed with her, or if I let her cry herself off to sleep (which is horrible, but when she's so tired I feel I've no choice really). I do feel in a bit of a cleft stick, too. I so want to encourage her to use the potty/loo - and her to ask for it, but I honestly don't know whether she wants to use it, or has just found a marvellous way of keeping Mummy around past bedtime. I'm meant to be working in the evenings, really - and although it is quite funny - watching all these wonderfully overacted toilet motions (followed by hopeful peerings into the loo by both of us), I've started to feel a sense of humour failure coming on. Oh, and if I totally ignore her first calls she's prone to taking nappy off.

Any suggestions/advice/ideas would be so welcome. I've explained to her ad infininitum that even big girls wee in the nappy at night and that it really doesn't matter, and I have to say I'd have more sympathy if she once asked to sit on it for a wee during the day. I've tried letting her make her own way to bathroom (surreptitiously watched) - and she ignored loo, but started to run herself a bath (cold water) and climb into it - so that's not an option. I don't think she's ready to be dry at night anyway, to be honest - I certainly don't expect her to be. Maybe I've started training too early? But then she seems really happy about it during the day, and I'm really loathe to discontinue it now, since it seems to be going well - bowel movements etc have all been in potty pretty much from when we started - she does ask for it then. Sorry this is so long, but I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Am totally puzzled as to what to do at the moment.

[judetheobscure]

IMO it should be made a criminal offence for a pre-school NOT to take a child because they are still in nappies.

[shelleyb]

debbied - i started toilet training ds1 4 months before his 3rd birthday. had a few good days then it all went pear shaped. left it again till a month before his 3rd birthday when he started asking to use the toilet. he never used a potty at all, just those ring seats you put inside the toilet seat and he did brilliantly with only the odd accident. basically if they aren't ready don't push it. ds1 actually developed a stutter when we were trying the first time and i think it was because he found it too stressful. by the time we realised what was happening it was too late. the stutter stopped a couple of months later. its a huge shame your son HAS to be dry for nursery as it puts a lot of pressure on you. Our nursery was ok with nappies so we were lucky.

[debbied]

my son will be three in july and will not use the potty he is just noe interested at all. he is going to nursery in september and needs to be dry through out the day. any ideas would be very helpful

[Katherine]

I find the key to the dry nights was the "last wee wee". No matter if they'd done one 10 mins before the very last thing they do is wee. Its only the rare occassions we missed this that we had accidents. If we've been out and they fall asleep on the way home then I still pop them on the loo. DS just leans against me and doesn't wake up but still performs. Also make sure they don't have drinks too late.

[batey]

Forgot to say, tried a week of naps w/out nappy then went on to nights. Good Luck, glad things are improving.

[SueDonim]

Great news, Francesj!

[pupuce]

I can tell you that I was also astonished when DS was dry at night without any sort of prompting from me.... and so I went on to look in books to see at what age they were suppose to be dry then... so I decided I had a clever boy

The best bit is that it was stress free and that we have no accident ! Bless him!

[FrancesJ]

Well, potty in bedroom worked much better, hurrah! Clearly sitting on potty doesn't have the frisson of being carefully escorted to and from the bathroom. Still calls and kerfuffle, but that's probably because she's gotten a bit used to having all this lovely attention, and I can deal with that much better now not thinking that she's possibly desperate to use the loo. So again, thanks lots for lovely suggestions.

Am defn going to try her in no nappy tonight, specially because this morning, when daddy put fresh nappy on her (he's not really au fait with potty bit yet, but to be fair, he rises early with her so as to give me an extra half-hour in bed, so I'm not messing with that one) nappy was whipped off, and she rushed off to big girls loo - wonderful! Must stop putting her for nap in trainers, too, since have just found her desperate to pull it down and sit on potty, but dratted thing got stuck. Poor lamb, poo everywhere, and all of a doo-dah. All cuddled now, and better.

I was thinking about this last night, wondering whether the reason I've not really considered that she could be dry at night is that being an avid statistic reader, and reading all the '1/3 children aren't dry at night from four' stats, plus being really keen not to push her into anything has made me under-rate her a bit. Just wondered how much others feel influenced, whether subliminal or otherwise (I never really thought that I was influenced, but clearly I have been) by all the surveys, statistics, charts, progress level type thingies?

[batey]

My dd2 has been dry for the last month now, she was 26ms when we gave it a go with the nights and so far so good. She too will faff to kingdom come if allowed and tried this potty stuff. But what worked for us was just leave it in the room and she'd hop on and off a bit and as I was outside showing no interest, pretty soon "no wee-wee Mummy".
if you give the nights a go, be prepared with bedding etc and expect some wet nights, and make sure she does a last minute wee before bed, once the faffing about has settled. HTH and Good Luck.

[pupuce]

I am as daft as you---- don't worry ! I felt terrible when I realised that he had wanted to be dry ! I did keep him in nappy for another week (putting it on in his sleep) and he never had an accident.
Touch wood he has still not had an accident !(It's been 2 1/2 months).

[FrancesJ]

Thanks lots for the suggestions. Potty is in room as I type (awaiting cries of "mummmmeeeeee". If she'll go on that, rather than insisting on using the 'big girls loo seat' then maybe some of the bedtime shennanigans will stop. I've kept her in trainer pants tonight, but if she takes them off then I won't replace them straightaway but will nip upstairs later on (fab idea - she'll be nice and cool too).

Pupuce - I hadn't even considered that she might want to be dry at night (how daft am I?). Just assumed due to age that she wouldn't be. She certainly doesn't want to be in nappies (don't blame her, in this weather - eurch, all sticky and hot). I think she had dry nappies some mornings before hot weather, but she's drinking a beaker of water at night at the moment, so that might scupper it a bit. Will peer closely at morning nappy to check. Thanks again - have been feeling like 'mummy on a string' recently, and at least I've a bit of a masterplan now!

[pupuce]

My son did somewhat the same at 29 months but he was dry during the day and had basically no accident - for him this was like independence day ! I did put a potty in his room and he would remove his nappy.... and I would put it back by 10PM when I went to bed.... it only dawned on me 4 days later that his nappy was always dry in the morning (since he had decided on no nappy at night).... so maybe she would like to be dry ???

Otherwise I agree - she has found a good way to ensure later bedtime and like you I'd be worried about the potty training.... difficult one !

[SueDonim]

I agree with Soupdragon - your DD is having a fine game with you!! I'd suggest a potty in her room too, either with or without a nappy. You may need to sneak up and put a nappy on her when she is asleep, if she has an accident. Good luck!

[SoupDragon]

It does sound like a way of keeping her mummy around after bed time, but I guess you know that. It doesn't sound lke there is a physical problem as this performance doesn't go on during the day.

My only suggestion is could she have a potty in her room? I agree, its difficult to ignore your child when they insist they need the toilet and I think they learn this all too well