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Feminism: chat

Woman walking around town in suspenders and thong- empowering?!

81 replies

DoobryWhatsit · 04/04/2022 10:30

Instagram stunt, obviously. The "point" being made is apparently that there is nothing inherently sexual about female bodies, or the pieces of clothing that cover them (or not), and that if people view a woman in a teeny tiny bra, suspenders, thong and stilettos as sexual, then this just shows what an awful misogynistic society we live in.

The woman in question was particularly scathing of anyone crying "what about the CHILDREN!!", because yes, children exist, but so does her arse.

I mean, I kind of get the argument. Of course women shouldn't be seen as primarily existing for the titillation/gratification of men. But, we live in a society with accepted rules around decency. Sex is normal, but I feel very strongly that we shouldn't be exposing our children to sexualised images, and I'm afraid I do see sexy underwear as sexual! Am I a closet misogynist?

I don't know how many people will agree with me/understand what I'm getting at, but you lot are always really good at putting my "I really don't agree with this, but I can't quite form a coherent argument" feelings into actual words!

OP posts:
sharksarecool · 15/04/2022 08:55

I think I would find it very empowering to fart loudly in a lift. It will safe me the discomfort of holding it, I can just be my true self.
But wait, what if other people don't want to smell my farts....? Then they are intolerant and small-minded.

ReggaetonLente · 15/04/2022 01:55

I saw this too and eyerolled. I'm a feminist, raising daughters - we're not shy about nudity in the home and I take them to public baths (live abroad) so they see a wide range of female body types just existing. I breastfeed and do it in public, discretely but no covers or anything. I feel like all that stuff will make more impact than this girl wandering around in stockings and a thong. It's not that her body is on show in public - it's that female bodies on show in public are almost always decorated for the male gaze.

They think they've done this really clever, controversial thing and it's just so... Not. And yet anyone critical of it is small minded and parochial.

I wish the girl in question just had the integrity to admit that despite not having the usual 'desirable' Instagram body type, she still wants to know people think she's sexy. That's what it's for, attention. Male attention. Pathetic.

Lpc3 · 15/04/2022 01:48

She will put the local strip club out of business at this rate.

allyjay · 14/04/2022 14:53

Basically just more male gaze bullshit. Not empowering at all. She basically just wants us to know how hot she is

darlingdodo · 10/04/2022 13:44

Might have had more truck with the argument if she'd been wearing hush puppies and a wincyette vest tbh.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 10/04/2022 12:56

It's the functionality of clothes. We, society, assigns a value, a meaning to things. All sorts of things, every thing, everywhere, everywhen. Each society, by era, geography, etc, has its own mores and everyone within that society learns them and live within them publicly.

People who do not are by social definition 'abherrant'. Sometimes that is unfair, mental health, disability etc. Sometimes it is a matter of choice and aberration is just a bit amusing. Other times it's tediously annoying, infuriating.

And this is one of those tedious times. Underwear is just that. A glimpse of bra strap is one thing, flash of knickers is another. But swishing up and down a main thoroughfare in your best Victoria's Secrets is exhibitionism, even if you do think you are Clark Kent's female alter ego! And exhibitionism is a social no no, for many reasons. Some good, some prudish, but all known.

So all these ladies need to understand is what they expected to get out of this, what did they want from it?

Because the things they are smirking about, giggling over, getting all self-righteous about are the very basic social mores that protect women, kids, vulnerable people from being abused. We can wear the equivalent clothing, skimpy shorts and a strappy top, outer clothing, even if lacy, us outer clothing. But underwear, black, lacy, the sort associated with sex not comfort, is always going to elicit that response when seen out in public.

So apart from "No shit, Sherlock" what do they want from this? Sex work is work? Women should be able to wear arseless knickers and see through bras and be neither cold nor stared at? Not judged as a tad odd? What?

greasyshoes · 10/04/2022 12:34

So why the "no", then? Would you normally object to what a family member wears when out with you, or just when it shows most of their body?

Mum being a family member has nothing to do with it. I wouldn't go out for a walk with any man or woman who was scantily clad, just because it would draw attention and I dislike being noticeable in public. I'm not sure what point you are trying to get at here.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 10/04/2022 10:18

@greasyshoes

I'm a man and I don't think there is anything wrong with what this woman is wearing.

What a surprise!
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 10/04/2022 10:17

@donquixotedelamancha

We've gone full circle back. This is just basing your worth on men's opinions again. Line you said, not only not empowering, it is actually harmful in a way to those who are impressionable.

This. I don't have a clue how anyone can think that is empowering.

I don't think it's full circle, I think feminism has never regained the ground lost to 3rd wave, 'sex-positive' feminism and has been in retreat on a some fronts (in terms of practical outcomes for women) since the 90s.

The naratives that humans can change sex, porn is empowering and women are as physically strong as men are all eating away at the understanding most people used to have, in my youth, of why feminism was necessary and what work still needs to be done.

Exactly.

If it was empowering, it would be something powerful people had done.
Lavenderlid · 09/04/2022 23:12

So why the "no", then? Would you normally object to what a family member wears when out with you, or just when it shows most of their body?

StaplesCorner · 09/04/2022 22:29

I think the phrase I’m looking for is “silly cow”.🤔

greasyshoes · 09/04/2022 22:24

Would you go out with your mum while she wore that?

No, but that doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with what she is wearing.

Lavenderlid · 09/04/2022 15:43

@greasyshoes

I'm a man and I don't think there is anything wrong with what this woman is wearing.

Would you go out with your mum while she wore that?
MangyInseam · 09/04/2022 15:37

Bodies actually are inherently sexual. That's not all they are, but it's part of our biology, and it's something society has to deal with in order to function in a good way. People need to be able to be out and about without sex getting in the way, but also flirt, have sexual relationships, concieve children, etc.

One way we do that is by defining separate spaces for these things, and generally accepted rules about where and when things like flirting, or sexually seductive clothing, are ok, and where they aren't. So sexual activity is generally private. Even things like flirting, or more "seductive" styles of clothing are not ok in certain settings, say at work.

There are grey areas and sometimes there is a certain amount of disagreement but in general this only works if there is an overall understanding by people of which things are ok in which spaces.

But this idea that bodies aren't "inherently sexual" is always going to lead to unrealistic approaches and incoherent statements because the premise is flawed.

AnnUumellmahaye · 08/04/2022 22:31

The "point" being made is apparently that there is nothing inherently sexual about female bodies, or the pieces of clothing that cover them
Our bodies are inherently sexual, both male and female, covering up and show casing your other talents, allows other people to experience you as a whole human being and not just a sexual one.

twinklystar23 · 08/04/2022 17:12

I recall at a fucking family holiday camp (Haven) a group of women appeared in st trinians style dress. My then 5 yr old, who had just started school asked "Mummy, why are those ladies wearing school uniform?" I was fucking incensed at this, as I would be this oh-so-empowered-male-approving-seeking woman. Yes, their are children around, I do not personally feel I should be responsible for explaining your behaviour/appearance, to children, we do not want to see her arse.
It's nothing more than internalised misogyny, reinforcing views that women should be ranked in order of their physical attractiveness to men.
Wonder if she will be doing this in 40 years time? nah, thought not.

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 05/04/2022 19:57

Can I expect David Gandy in his tightie whities wandering round Chelsea soon……?!

UsernameNotAvailableHmm · 05/04/2022 19:54

I don't see it as empowering, although she looks happy and confident, she is simply wearing what a lot of men want to see, she is conforming
I suppose she is saving them the bother of spying on women in changing rooms
Would she still feel empowered if a man took too much of a liking to her
Someone who wouldn't leave her alone, was touching her, telling her how she was making him feel, following her, and so on
I'm not saying this is justified male behaviour, or that she would deserve it,
I know that men will bother women whatever they're wearing,
To me, feeling empowered would mean not having to wear the crappy uncomfy underwear
Feeling empowered is not conforming, not looking how women are shown they should look, for the sake of the male gaze

ssd · 05/04/2022 19:05

Thats very true @oliviastwisted

oliviastwisted · 05/04/2022 18:28

I am actually beginning to think female empowerment is a modern synonym for wearing fuck all because that is almost the only context I see those words being used.

huniepop · 05/04/2022 18:20

@greasyshoes

I'm a man and I don't think there is anything wrong with what this woman is wearing.


Of course not, because it was a performance for your benefit.
greasyshoes · 05/04/2022 17:59

I'm a man and I don't think there is anything wrong with what this woman is wearing.

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Thelnebriati · 05/04/2022 12:23

'Empowering' benefits one individual, not women as a class.
A more radical analysis would ask why women still need to be empowered in 2022.

AmericanStickInsect · 05/04/2022 10:57

It's just lazy 'feminism'.
Doing what the patriarchy wants for men = bad
Doing what the patriarchy wants for yourself = amazing, brave, groundbreaking, stunning, empowering. Please. Spare me.

LadyOfTheCanyon · 05/04/2022 09:11

A huge amount of the general norms for what is acceptable wear for women is in line with a sexualised view of their bodies. Women have accepted/been told for so long that "looking nice" means pandering to the male gaze that when we say "I dress for myself" it's incredibly hard to understand how culturally and socially invested we are in toeing that particular line. It's almost impossible not to be affected by patriarchal norms when dressing, most of the time.

I know for example that I sometimes dress in a way I know my husband likes because on a basic level my 'worth' feels bound up with male approval. He mostly just slobs about in jeans and t shirts. I don't feel any less attracted to him when he's dressed like that, so why do I assume he will find me less attractive in sweatpants?

Women absolutely should be able to walk down the road dressed how they like without fear or judgement. But of course they can't. And of course women can buy into stereotypical sexy tropes like suspenders and stockings if they so wish, but these choices aren't made in a vacuum.

A beautiful young woman, slim, toned and dressed in underwear which is still the epitome of a lot of straight mens fantasies, walking down the road for Instagram shits and giggles, is doing nothing other than compounding the idea that this is what women should look like and how they should dress.

An overweight 65 year old dressed in mismatched dinosaur pyjamas, no bra and orthopaedic flatforms taking a walk would be assumed to have mental health issues.

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