BBC article on Ukraine surrogacy

[CarbonelCat]

So. Many. Things. To. Say

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60824936

[ParsleySageRosemary]

What struck me about these surrogacies is that the parents were “so desperate” to have a baby (toy) that they would exploit and abuse poor women in countries with lax laws. But not so desperate that they, with all their wealth, would not try everything in their power to rescue “their” babies from a war zone? Makes no sense.

[drspouse]

The "children's homes" may well be care homes for children with disabilities, respite care for parents who can't have their children at home full time. It's unlikely that they are homes for infants whose parents have both died, frankly.

[CarbonelCat]

Those babies and surrogate mothers are in that position because of rich foreigners taking advantage of Ukraine’s poor women and weak legislation.

Yes. That the agency is expecting to be caring for upwards of 100 babies in a bombed out basement ....it's just horrifying.

[Whatinthelord]

@CarbonelCat

"Surrogacy is never anyone's first pick but it comes as a result of a deep loss beforehand," she says."

A) this isn't true. There are multiple examples and the push to normalise and celebrate surrogacy increasingly supports surrogacy as an equal and valid choice as a route to having children.

B) of it is isn't/wasn't your first choice, what were the reasons? What about those reasons changes? How do you justify the re weighting of the pros and cons?

I hated that comment.
As if the fact that surrogacy sometimes comes after a loss (presumably they’re referring to loss of own children/fertility) justifies the use of people in that way. Being unable to have a child doesn’t mean your use of other peoples bodies and unethical systems is ok.

What also saddened me was the comments people made on the article. Lots of “poor babies and parents” but very little recognition that this is a man made problem.

Those babies and surrogate mothers are in that position because of rich foreigners taking advantage of Ukraine’s poor women and weak legislation.

[DefaultParent]

To be clear, I mean surrogacy should never happen.

[DefaultParent]

Such awful circumstances that should never happen. The lack of empathy from the intended parents does make you question whether they are really suitable adoptive parents at all.

[Saisong]

This is devastating. Those poor mothers and their babies.

The point about how the country will care for the abandoned ones reminds me that there was a news item very recently about children's homes being evacuated. They mentioned hundreds of thousands of children in state care in Ukraine. I don't know why that is already the case, but it points to an already significant 'issue' with abandoned/orphaned children in the country.

[Sinuhe]

I just couldn't read the article past the point where it's made clear that surrogacy isn't allowed in Moldova...
Words, thoughts and feelings fail me. I just can't. I wish surrogacy was made illegal and is classed inhumane by the United Nations & WHO.

[CarbonelCat]

"Surrogacy is never anyone's first pick but it comes as a result of a deep loss beforehand," she says."

A) this isn't true. There are multiple examples and the push to normalise and celebrate surrogacy increasingly supports surrogacy as an equal and valid choice as a route to having children.

B) of it is isn't/wasn't your first choice, what were the reasons? What about those reasons changes? How do you justify the re weighting of the pros and cons?

[GahAndTheBear]

@Whatinthelord

Honestly I’m so cynical about surrogacy, especially paid surrogacy involving foreign poor surrogate mothers.

Honestly this article frustrated me. A decent journalist could have gone in depth about the ethical issue etc. This was an awfully written argument with no mention of the wider issues of surrogacy and little focus on the child.

It so often is. No one wants to touch the ethics of it. Or anything else that might crack the pretence that buying a baby from abroad is somehow a positive thing because the people doing it ‘just desperately want a family’.

[CarbonelCat]

It's a weird article because it details the issues - many and varied but does not offer any analysis or discussion of them. And then overlays some weird soundbite sentimentality

[Whatinthelord]

Honestly I’m so cynical about surrogacy, especially paid surrogacy involving foreign poor surrogate mothers.

Honestly this article frustrated me. A decent journalist could have gone in depth about the ethical issue etc. This was an awfully written argument with no mention of the wider issues of surrogacy and little focus on the child.

[Clymene]

@drspouse

It makes it hard to believe that it’s not just about buying a nice shiny newborn, doesn’t it?
Except of course that's what it is.
Full disclosure: we are adoptive parents and waited months for our DD to be legally released; she was in foster care during this time, and was a baby, and we were lucky enough to see her during this time, but obviously we were not going to go away and say "oh, she's too old now".

And that's why adoption is light years away from surrogacy. It's not about wanting a box fresh baby which is what this lot want.

I wonder how many babies will be abandoned now? It's like Romania past two

The babies in the article I read aren't being cared for by their mothers. They're being cared for by nurses and nannies in a mass nursery. How is this devastated country going to support all these abandoned orphans?

[CarbonelCat]

"How anyone can read that article and still support surrogacy I don’t know."

I agree

[drspouse]

It makes it hard to believe that it’s not just about buying a nice shiny newborn, doesn’t it?
Except of course that's what it is.
Full disclosure: we are adoptive parents and waited months for our DD to be legally released; she was in foster care during this time, and was a baby, and we were lucky enough to see her during this time, but obviously we were not going to go away and say "oh, she's too old now".

[drspouse]

Various articles from 2020:

www.marieclaire.com/health-fitness/a32433196/surrogacy-covid-19-ukraine/

www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-babies-born-to-surrogates-stranded-in-ukraine-clinic/a-53547276

www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-stranded-babies-of-the-coronavirus-disaster

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52706228

If the mothers are being told not to travel because they can't give birth in other countries, this is going to happen again. Only this time it's going to be in a bomb shelter not a hotel.

[GahAndTheBear]

@drspouse

I was thinking about all the ones who are trapped. Their 'intended parents' aren't going to want them are they?

I think this happened already at the start of the pandemic, didn't it? The IPs didn't want them because they were too old, having been cared for by their actual mothers (in some cases I would imagine their genetic mothers too), as "nannies".

Eurgh. It makes it hard to believe that it’s not just about buying a nice shiny newborn, doesn’t it?

[drspouse]

I was thinking about all the ones who are trapped. Their 'intended parents' aren't going to want them are they?

I think this happened already at the start of the pandemic, didn't it? The IPs didn't want them because they were too old, having been cared for by their actual mothers (in some cases I would imagine their genetic mothers too), as "nannies".

[GahAndTheBear]

I do think that being open that we are talking about the acceptable face of human trafficking here (it is the global baby trade) would be a good start.

Surrogacy - and especially this kind of international surrogacy - is a euphemism for a system that commodifies and exploits vulnerable women and the infants they are used to grow.

[empties]

In Ireland this was the lead story re the war in Ukraine in the weeks before and beginning. Prominent on the news and Senator cheerleading for Irish parents "expecting" babies in Ukraine.
Given we are just coming to terms with "forced" adoption here it is gobsmacking the lack of awareness around the issues involved.
Not to judge the people who want children but it is seen as an issue with one side only, rather than one where Ukraine is one of the few where this kind of surrogacy is available...

[Clymene]

@FingonTheValiant

I particularly hated the bit where Emma says something like «If you’d asked me a year ago, I’d have said I’d never ask a woman to return to a war zone to give birth to a child, but things have changed». I was absolutely gobsmacked that anyone can have such a lack of awareness that she could say that without adding «but it turns out I’m a selfish and over-privileged ** with no regard for a pregnant woman’s safety». FFS. What kind of person does that? At the absolute worst, get on a plane and accompany her to another country. But maybe reflect on the reality of what you’re doing. How anyone can read that article and still support surrogacy I don’t know.

...Because I will stop at nothing to get my baby.

I was thinking about all the ones who are trapped. Their 'intended parents' aren't going to want them are they? Because they won't be all shiny and new, they'll be institutionalised and traumatised.

I really hope this is the end of the global baby trade.

[FingonTheValiant]

I particularly hated the bit where Emma says something like «If you’d asked me a year ago, I’d have said I’d never ask a woman to return to a war zone to give birth to a child, but things have changed». I was absolutely gobsmacked that anyone can have such a lack of awareness that she could say that without adding «but it turns out I’m a selfish and over-privileged with no regard for a pregnant woman’s safety». FFS. What kind of person does that? At the absolute worst, get on a plane and accompany her to another country. But maybe reflect on the reality of what you’re doing. How anyone can read that article and still support surrogacy I don’t know.

[CarbonelCat]

The article is a Mish mash with no coherent point

The last paragraph is v odd.

Detailing how women are being asked/coerced into returning to a war zone to give birth in unsafe circumstances to make the legal issues go away...

Detailing how a woman who had given birth in a war zone to twins then had to travel with the twins and her own 2 small children to hand the babies over to the commissioners who couldn't/wouldn't travel themselves. And that those commissioners have not been in touch since, completely disregarding the surrogate mother and her children's safety and emotional needs.

All v discomforting

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

I hated how that article made the intended parents look like heros for rescuing the surrogate mothers, while brushing over the issues such as them leaving part of the family behind, living tiny rented apartments without beds, and just popping back to a war zone to make the legalities easier.

Not to mention the babies in the nursery

[ssd]

This war has broke my heart. God only knows what its doing to the actual people involved. I feel helpless in my anger.