Ukrainian Surrogate Babies Kept Alive by Nannies

[Delphinium20]

Most of the babies featured in this article look older than newborns - so how long have they been living away from a parent to bond with? I find this deeply disturbing. The article didn't go into the ages of the babies, but it's obvious most were born before the war started.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220312202907/www.nytimes.com/2022/03/12/world/europe/ukraine-surrogate-mothers-babies.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220312202907/www.nytimes.com/2022/03/12/world/europe/ukraine-surrogate-mothers-babies.html

[OhHolyJesus]

The surrogacy board is seen in a similar way to infertility and there is an adoption board so many don't see the problem. Surrogacy and adoption are simply two methods to have a family, though they are completely different processes and I don't think can be naturally compared. Generally debate about surrogacy is not allowed there and it's limited to this board or maybe AIBU and Feminism Sex and Gender.

I've seen threads on the surrogacy board deleted where posters come to find a woman to have a baby for them, and as you can't advertise for surrogacy and some can't afford agencies fees, any form of social media is a way to connect and make a private arrangement.

[Vanishun]

@mnhq just flagging this too, I didn't realise that.

It's hugely concerning that a parenting board would encourage something which is creating a child to be taken away from its birth mother, knowing what we do about attachment disorders.

I say that as someone who had recurrent mcs and ended up infertile without children.

Please would you reconsider?

[SouthernFashionista]

@HomeEdMom

And yet MN has a surrogacy board because apparently it’s AOK?

What next, a slavery board? A pimps board?

I had no idea there was a surrogacy board. @Mumsnet this is not ok. How on earth can you justify this? What about a ‘sex work’ 🙄 section too?

[habibihabibi]

I wonder if you could find a way to write about this @habibihabibi?
I have contributed to a number of articles but as long as you have a huge number of çelebrities endorsing surrogacy ( and yes I know it is mostly in the states but it can be corrupt there too) nobody really listens.
People are sheep and if its ok for the rich and famous, then its Ok.
But let's get it cheaply and go to Ukraine.

Kim Kardasian has two naturally conceived children but needed to "complete " her family with two born by surrogacy for example.
Extremely wealthly gay couples MUST have twins that each of them have inseminated and a surrogate carries, even though this risks her health .
People think they have a right to children, not someones cast off orphans they can truly make a difference to, but their own selectively breed ones.
The lack of regulation sees some of these "custom" kids abandoned into the care system in the Ukraine. Gay couple break up, child is no longer wanted , surrogate has another assignment and baby is chucked in orphanage.

[SirVixofVixHall]

@HomeEdMom

And yet MN has a surrogacy board because apparently it’s AOK?

What next, a slavery board? A pimps board?

This.
A “flog your kidney” board ?

[OhHolyJesus]

@habibihabibi

And yet MN has a surrogacy board because apparently it’s AOK?
And on there people will happily share their tales of how they got exactly what they wanted without a thought to the pain and exploitation behind it.
They met the surrogate and she was a lovely young woman supporting a child as she worked through college.
Only she wasn't your surrogate , she was just a pregnant poster girl. Yours is a pasty and poorly girl trafficked by a pimp in the part of the city far away from the shiny clinic. She gives birth to your child on order and a month later is inseminated with a stolen egg and some cashed up chaps sperm .

I wonder if you could find a way to write about this @habibihabibi ?

It sounds horrific so all the more reason to expose the truth. It's truly depressing how the sanitised version is what I'm guessing the majority understand to be 'true'.

[BoodleBug51]

I saw this on the news, and was deeply upset by it.

And is why I feel there is no place for surrogacy in this world.

[OhHolyJesus]

@habibihabibi

I've very opposed to surrogacy and have spoken about my horrifying experiences of the shady business when I lived in Ukraine. It is a really vile practise and organised crime rings have their mitts into all aspects of the trade. Women are exploited and children born and abandoned
Ukraine has over 100,000 orphans in care and some are definately surrogacy no shows.

In relation to organised crime, there is a webinar tonight which has one talk looking at surrogacy and the Mafia.

twitter.com/wombsnotforrent/status/1505149618782416899?s=21

[AppleButter]

I have another article here, in German, but you se the details of how intensively the babies are having to be “reared” , I am sure the nurses are working round the clock and working very hard, but it is unlikely they will more more than a few minutes per baby. The poor poor babies will all have to cry themselves to sleep, learn to self soothe, will really lack the physical closeness and bonding that a newborn needs. It is an emergency that shows up , in neutral language, “flaws” of the system, it is a baby farm in a bunker. I wonder how many will be affected by the lack of bonding, and later on given up by the parents that ordered them. www.spiegel.de/ausland/leihmutterschaft-in-der-ukraine-ein-bunker-voller-babys-a-4a514c55-097a-4818-b379-98e5a82c7a67

[Abitofalark]

Article by Mary Harrington in UnHerd about surrogacy:

"Commercial surrogacy is big business, predicted to turn over some $27bn worldwide by 2025. ... After the USA, Ukraine is the second most popular destination worldwide for surrogacy, with an estimated 2,000 babies born to paid gestational surrogates there every year. And now, numerous such babies are being born only to find themselves stranded in a warzone, with the commissioning customers unable to collect their order.

The press has published piteous photos of rows of tiny cribs, each of which contains a newborn baby, separated at birth from a mother paid only to gestate but not to love it. These babies are cared for not with the rapt, intimate attention of a loving mother but on a production-line basis by paid nursing staff.

This treatment of living humans as products is profoundly dystopian."

Read more:
unherd.com/thepost/where-are-dave-rubins-babies-coming-from/?mc_cid=9c8f9683a6&mc_eid=31e133b3a4

[habibihabibi]

And yet MN has a surrogacy board because apparently it’s AOK?
And on there people will happily share their tales of how they got exactly what they wanted without a thought to the pain and exploitation behind it.
They met the surrogate and she was a lovely young woman supporting a child as she worked through college.
Only she wasn't your surrogate , she was just a pregnant poster girl. Yours is a pasty and poorly girl trafficked by a pimp in the part of the city far away from the shiny clinic. She gives birth to your child on order and a month later is inseminated with a stolen egg and some cashed up chaps sperm .

[habibihabibi]

I would be very surprised if any of the Ukraine surrogacy organisations were squeaky clean ethically.
My experience saw school aged girls that were financially or abusively coerced into egg donation and surrogacy. Back yard baby factories feeding seemingly pristine clinics with kids.
Eggs changing hands for a fortune to fufill ethnicity requirements eg Asian donor egg and were illegally obtained for sure.
So a Chinese heterosexual couples eggs may be used in a gay couples surrogacy without the biological donor knowing.
Children who did not turn out as planned , dumped in orphanages. Women who died because of being surrogates.

[HomeEdMom]

And yet MN has a surrogacy board because apparently it’s AOK?

What next, a slavery board? A pimps board?

[Delphinium20]

@habibihabibi

I've very opposed to surrogacy and have spoken about my horrifying experiences of the shady business when I lived in Ukraine. It is a really vile practise and organised crime rings have their mitts into all aspects of the trade. Women are exploited and children born and abandoned
Ukraine has over 100,000 orphans in care and some are definately surrogacy no shows.

Wow! I hadn't considered organized crime. I suppose it's naive I hadn't.

@DuckyNoMates I'm a bit like you, but a few years back. The more I learn the more shocked I am. Like the organized crime bit habibihabibi mentioned today. I'd felt surrogacy was something I might do for my sister, but I'd adopt rather than ask someone myself. I wasn't focused on it beyond that. Then, my15 DD, after doing college searches on my computer, was sent a lot of ads to be an egg donor and down the rabbit hole I went. My anger at their manipulation of teenagers' media really kicked off my interest in what was happening in the surrogacy/egg donor industry.

[Patapouf]

@greenlynx

I don’t think parents have abandoned them deliberately. They need to come and collect their babies physically and it’s not easy. Travel was restricted because of Covid, and now the war is happening…
Also you need some sort of documents. I suspect you can’t just bring a baby to UK without any papers.

Well yes, you shouldn't just be able to traffick a a baby home in your handbag should you.

Horrendous for those poor babies. I really detest commercial/organised surrogacy.

[NotMeekNotObedient]

I also find it deeply disturbing.

[habibihabibi]

I've very opposed to surrogacy and have spoken about my horrifying experiences of the shady business when I lived in Ukraine. It is a really vile practise and organised crime rings have their mitts into all aspects of the trade. Women are exploited and children born and abandoned
Ukraine has over 100,000 orphans in care and some are definately surrogacy no shows.

[DuckyNoMates]

@HumptySumptious

It's awful to read the word commission in relation to babies.

This whole thing is awful - what have we become?

I think this is the first time I've actually properlt thought about surrogacy and I feel a bit uncomfortable.

[Nnique]

@HumptySumptious

It's awful to read the word commission in relation to babies.

This whole thing is awful - what have we become?

This.

The whole surrogacy thing is way past ethical boundaries and needs to be wound down altogether. Babies should not be ‘grown to order’, nor should one be able to commission them.

[SuperSocks]

Fucking hell. It's 2022, time to stop trading human beings maybe?

[HumptySumptious]

It's awful to read the word commission in relation to babies.

This whole thing is awful - what have we become?

[DuckyNoMates]

Oh those poor babies

[Delphinium20]

@greenlynx

I don’t think parents have abandoned them deliberately. They need to come and collect their babies physically and it’s not easy. Travel was restricted because of Covid, and now the war is happening…
Also you need some sort of documents. I suspect you can’t just bring a baby to UK without any papers.

The why did they commission them in the first place? The pandemic has been going on for 2 years. These babies aren't 3 years old.

[greenlynx]

I don’t think parents have abandoned them deliberately. They need to come and collect their babies physically and it’s not easy. Travel was restricted because of Covid, and now the war is happening…
Also you need some sort of documents. I suspect you can’t just bring a baby to UK without any papers.

[DramaAlpaca]

It's really awful. There'll be attachment issues for sure. It's a horrible industry.