NHS service failures leading to forced pregnancies

[NumberTheory]

Independent reporting that women are being forced to continue with unwanted pregnancies because of problems with access to contraception and abortion services.

Under investment in the NHS is just stacking problems on top of problems.

[SenselessUbiquity]

Late to this but can I just say I am furious about the dismissive word "convenience" being used to discredit a reason for not wanting to carry, bear, and bring up a baby. That's rather a lot more than an "inconvenience"

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

, Halloweenie13

[KimikosNightmare]

The only stats I could find were to June 2020 which showed 4,500 more abortions than in the 12 month to June 2019.

That takes us to the first 3 months of lockdown. The stats to June 2021 will be interesting.

[NiceGerbil]

When it comes to reproductive health in England Wales (Scotland NI different). The things I think are-

Did they reduce the MAP cost? It comes up from time to time. It was set high on purpose. Reasons to do with women being... Something. Don't know if that was changed. If not that needs doing asap.

Telemedicine for pills great.
Interesting point! I've seen a stack of threads on here with op purporting to be woman who used telemed or regrets abortion that wasn't telemed and thinks bad idea. The threads that I've read have had agenda to push and op not telling truth stamped all over them. I assume usual influx here on so many divisive issues. So there is pushback.

My feeling is govt will keep. Cheaper (massive benefit for them), better for women, safe etc. I don't think will go.

Can contraception checkovers be done away from GP? Easier cheaper at clinics? Pharmacy even?

In general though we are very lucky on this, from a global view, from a view of mainland Europe.

I need to see stats setting out numbers, length of delays etc.

[NiceGerbil]

So that's a bit ???

[NiceGerbil]

Just googling a bit looking for stats. This came up from bpas

'BPAS comment on Abortion Statistics 2020
10 June 2021

Government statistics demonstrate that telemedical abortion care has enabled women to end pregnancies at earliest gestations

Data released today from the Department of Health shows that the introduction of telemedical abortion services has enabled women to undergo abortion at the earliest gestations since records began.
88% of abortions in 2020 were performed at under 10 weeks gestation, in comparison to 82% in 2019 and 77% in 2010. This includes 26% of abortions being performed before 6 weeks’ gestation in 2020, compared to only 15% in 2019.
The data also reflects the impact of the pandemic upon women’s pregnancy choices with increased rates among older women, women who are already mothers, and women living in the most deprived areas.
BPAS has said that Britain’s telemedical abortion care is now “the standard of high quality, woman-centred care in countries around the world” and that the data released today supports the continuation of this service. '

[NiceGerbil]

I would be wary of bpas here even though pains me to say that as obv it's about an agenda.

To me, a delay to the usual really quick access is a delay. And with abortion that's important of course. Distressing and complicates things.

But so many of our abortions are so so so early that what does delay mean? In terms of stats? 6 weeks to 8 weeks. Or 6 weeks to 20?

I feel they have picked some individual stories to back their push to keep telemed. Which I agree with. But this article feels not quite giving the whole picture. To me.

We're very lucky to have the laws and access that we do- yes there are issues but globally we have great access and laws with way less restrictions.

I would want to see stats. Is bottom line. And I do think that forced pregnancy if referring to NHS working as hard as can with covid etc to keep things going and it's not significant delays. Then it's unfair. Forced pregnancy due to abortion issues to me conjures up no abortion due to missed deadlines, and woman has to have baby.

[NumberTheory]

@KimikosNightmare

It's scaremongering because of the emotive "forced pregnancies"

It's light to the point of non- existent , on facts and data

I agree with NiceGerbil it looks more like pushing the idea of continuing with telephone consultations etc.

Sadly, newspapers are notoriously bad at reporting quantitative data. - most people being more moved by an emotive story.

I did find preliminary NHS data on contraceptive provision at the start of the pandemic which seems to support the back story in this article (lack of access to contraception from early on). NHS don’t seem to normally release the data for the full April - March year until December, though.

There are some facts in the article. For instance, BPAS are reported as saying they have had a surge in demand this year and quantifying increased calls to their helpline. They also state there is a lack of capacity for second trimester abortions and that women are unable to access appointments because of a lack of staff and hospital space. As the biggest abortion provider in the UK any one concerned with abortion access should take that seriously rather than dismiss it.

Not sure why it’s seen as damming that BPAS have a policy goal when talking about this. The core of their mission is to improve women’s experiences around family planning. They’d be doing a piss poor job if they didn’t highlight the possibility of things getting worse if they loose access to something they think is a key tool in providing women with their services.

[NumberTheory]

*intervention is blocked from happening

[NumberTheory]

@MrsManders

I don’t agree with the term forced pregnancies. Pregnancy occurs naturally and will
Progress unless an intervention happens it’s not really being forced. Nobody is holding down women and inseminating them. Am I a being forced to have a big nose as the nhs won’t give me a nose job? Is somebody being forced to be a fat person as they can’t have a gastric band? I agree with access to abortion but this term never seems quite right to me.

The point is that an intervention isn’t blocked from happening.

I see it as forced becauseI see it in the terms of - If you drop a knife and aren’t allowed to move your foot, you’re being forced to have your foot stabbed. Of course you could have not used the knife, no one made you. Nevertheless, you’re blocked from taking action to stop something you don’t want to happen from happening. I see that as being forced to have it happen.

Whether you see it as forced pregnancy or not, it’s still a serious issue for women. In the UK a quarter of all pregnancies that don’t end in miscarriage are aborted. It’s a normal choice women make as part of their reproductive health that impacts their quality of life hugely. If that choice is no longer available for some it could be devastating for those individual women, but it will also be expensive for society.

[Binglebong]

And of course MAP generally costs so if there is a contraception failure it will affect poorer women far more.

[Binglebong]

Allowed to get the pill*

[Binglebong]

A common way to control women is through pregnancies. Picture a DV relationship - she's not loved the pill he won't use condoms and she isn't able to get the MAP. She may have a very narrow window where she can get an abortion without him knowing about the pregnancy (probably using the pill version so she can do it mostly at home).

Yeah, I'd say that is a forced pregnancy.

[MrsManders]

I don’t agree with the term forced pregnancies. Pregnancy occurs naturally and will
Progress unless an intervention happens it’s not really being forced. Nobody is holding down women and inseminating them. Am I a being forced to have a big nose as the nhs won’t give me a nose job? Is somebody being forced to be a fat person as they can’t have a gastric band? I agree with access to abortion but this term never seems quite right to me.

[KimikosNightmare]

It's scaremongering because of the emotive "forced pregnancies"

It's light to the point of non- existent , on facts and data

I agree with NiceGerbil it looks more like pushing the idea of continuing with telephone consultations etc.

[NumberTheory]

But why do you think it’s scaremongering, NiceGerbil?

[NumberTheory]

@NiceGerbil

Having read whole article my take is-

It's to support bpas desire to keep telemed for pills option.

Govt allowed for covid and looks like decision soonish on whether to let it continue.

Having to wait is obviously a bad thing all round. However that does not = forced pregnancy. A phrase that is close to forced birth and so imo is unnecessarily emotive.

I do see lack of access to abortion as forced pregnancy (and birth), but I see your point about it being unnecessarily emotive - that we could have a discussion that’s just as deep and covers the issues without it.

And yes, very much BPAS pushing for their preferred policy.

[NumberTheory]

@NiceGerbil

Not looking like going to discuss the article then !

It’s so depressing isn’t it?

Feminism board and so many posters just looking for a way to have a go at women who have sex.

[NiceGerbil]

These threads always end up being about reckless callous thick women.

We're not going to discuss the actual article then?

I think reason for article is clear and not impressed by scaremongering for policy support.

[NiceGerbil]

'People need to take responsibility for their bodies'

For Pregnancy then, men and women. Men can reduce their risk of impregnation by using condoms.

On the more general side of things, many issues are caused by or related to activities etc that people do.

A few are-
Smoking
Alcohol
Riding motorbikes
Playing sports like rugby
Going out to shops when pavements are icy
Horse riding
Etc etc.

The question of what things should be/ shouldn't be seen as 'only yourself to blame' is complex and fraught!

Interesting to see it invoked on this thread.

In terms of pregnancy. If a termination is wanted (within current laws). That is massively enormously cheaper not just for the NHS but a host of other things that children get eg schooling.

So the cost/ benefit issue it obvious really.

[YourFinestPantaloons]

@ftw163532

People need to take responsibility for their bodies

NHS needs to take responsibility for delivering the care it is tasked with delivering. That is literally its entire reason for existing.

When it fails to do so it should be condemned not excused.

We pay for the NHS. When it fails to deliver the care we need we have the right to complain.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[YourFinestPantaloons]

If condoms and morning after pills were used then the genuine women who have fallen pregnant despite precautions or due to rape etc can access safe abortions early and with the right support in place.

@Mymapuddlington ok then smarty pants riddle me this - how does that work practically?

Women presents at her GP requesting an abortion and says "I'm one of the genuine ones whose contraception failed". Or even "I'm pregnant because I was raped"How do we prove it?

Genuinely interested to know.

[NiceGerbil]

Not looking like going to discuss the article then !

[YourFinestPantaloons]

I know a few women who ‘get caught up in the moment’ but don’t worry because they’ll ‘get rid’.

Oh do stop taking shit. No woman thinks "ah it's ok I can always have an abortion". Crawl back to 4chan please

[YourFinestPantaloons]

@Mymapuddlington

Prevention is better than the cure 🤷‍♀️

What a helpful thing to say when we are talking about women who are already pregnant How embarrassing for you making that comment