Its the deep-seated, inbred misogyny, even with the "good guys" that gets me down

[Triffid1]

DH genuinely and absolutely is one of the "good" ones. During our time together I have been the main breadwinner, he has been the SAHP and now works part time around the DC. He does the bulk of day to day domestic chores (although not as high a percentage as he thinks he does! , partly because he honestly doesn't seem to consider me cooking dinner and doing all meal planning and shopping a "chore" for me....because I like cooking?). He has also put the work in to think about attitudes he didn't even realise he was carrying around etc. Every single one of my friends thinks I am the luckiest woman alive because of the way he is and his contribution.

But I'm so tired of the deep seated assumption of superiority and control that comes from 1000s of years of white men being in charge. I admire him for the work he's done and is doing to overcome it but it still gets me down. Not least because what I experience is just the tip of the iceberg. And how is anything ever going to bloody change if even men like DH still haven't really changed?

I started typing up two long examples but it was too boring even for me. So in summary, today's examples are 1. DH's work is part time, adhoc/self employed and a fraction of mine ito earnings and yet I have to specifically ask him to take time to look after DC for half term/holidays etc. It just doesn't even cross his mind that he might have to cancel or rearrange something because I am WFH so he just assumes I can do it.

And secondly, his default assumption is that he must be accommodated. He's changed his plans this afternoon and will be at home but had a go at me because he's not happy about the plans I have made to manage the childcare while I am working today because it's now going to negatively impact his new decision to be at home this afternoon!? WTAF?

He has apologised for the latter and I'm working on the former. But god, it's tiring isn't it?

[twinklystar23]

Think this is more sexism than misogny .
Frustrating and wearing.

[SammyScrounge]

@Mybalconyiscracking

Meh, I deal with children, DH deals with cars and bills. It works for us, I don’t think he assumes any kind of superiority!

Hurrah! A favourable comment accepting a partner for what he is! A rarity on MN -I was beginning to feel sorry for the menfolk.

[Triffid1]

@PicsInRed

OP, he's going out of his way to be seen as a "good guy" out in the community, but at home you carry the weight, you do the domestic work, he tells you off if you need him to "help". You shouldn't have to teach a grown man how to be a good man inside the home - he should want to do that hard study for himself, rather than add another thing on your already long list of things to do.

OP, re-read your 1st post around childcare and him "having a go" at you because he had to carry some of the load.of raising his own children. He's not good.

No, he doesn't. I put this post in feminism specifically because the complaint was about overall issues around sexism etc not that DH isn't a good guy. If you'd read my post, you'd also see that he apologised for his default assumption that his needs trump mine and for being a dick because I'd made plans that then made his NEW plan of staying home inconvenient.

You'd also see that he does in fact do the bulk of the childcare and lots of the tasks at home. It's more about instinctive attitudes and assumptions, and that he's working on those which is good. But my issue is that it's still there. That the vast bulk of men, even the "good ones" have all this stuff so in built that it's going to take FOREVER for anything to change.

[WallaceinAnderland]

I work in a company that provides an educational resource for children and can be purchased for the home or school. 99.99% of our home purchasers are women

I work in paediatric healthcare and 99.9% of parents booking and attending appointments are women.

[quixote9]

If you're the default for childcare, planning, organizing, etc., you're the manager. In the regular paid work world, that's a separate job, because it really is. It's a lot of work.

So, maybe, if you have the energy, :/ , discuss division of tasks. And this time note that if you're "on call" (= default carer) then that counts for two other jobs. Or, alternatively, he actually does all of his jobs, not just "helping" around the edges.

It's simple fairness. One of the good ones will eventually see it

[PicsInRed]

OP, he's going out of his way to be seen as a "good guy" out in the community, but at home you carry the weight, you do the domestic work, he tells you off if you need him to "help". You shouldn't have to teach a grown man how to be a good man inside the home - he should want to do that hard study for himself, rather than add another thing on your already long list of things to do.

OP, re-read your 1st post around childcare and him "having a go" at you because he had to carry some of the load.of raising his own children. He's not good.

[Triffid1]

@Mybalconyiscracking

Meh, I deal with children, DH deals with cars and bills. It works for us, I don’t think he assumes any kind of superiority!

Cars and bills in this house is a very small thing in comparison to dealing with children. So this would never in a million years work for me.

[Triffid1]

A lot of this resonates with me.

@PicsInRed for me, the point is that actually, in most ways my DH is genuinely great. eg a poster pointed out that her DH just seamlessly handles things when ill. My DH is actually completely the same. My DH has come home outraged on multiple occasions because he's been in conversations or overheard casual misogyny, often aimed at children ("stop crying like a little girl" "you throw like a girl") and, even better, he challenges it often. His friendships with a group of men that started when he was 6 years old have never quite recovered after he called them out when they were sitting around in the pub discussing how they wouldn't hire women of "childbearing" age because they might get pregnant.

Even more importantly for me, he genuinely thinks about things and acknowledges and adjusts his behaviour. And he goes out of his way to make things easier for women where he can because he knows how much harder it can be for us. When DS was a baby he swapped childcare days with the family we nanny-shared with so that she could accommodate work. He regularly steps in as last minute childcare as needed for families we know from school where the woman (and it's ALWAYS the woman) has a last minute issue etc. He now proactively organises gifts for his own family and will happily set off to do any other Christmas shopping/preparation (albeit under my suggestion) vs just assuming Christmas/birthdays magically happen.

It's just that he has to had to consciously notice and think about these things and change his behaviour that gets me down. He does do it, and I'm grateful. But as I keep saying, the deep seated misogyny means that it's a constant learning process for him and it's exhausting for all of us.

[minipie]

I agree with you OP except that I would use the word sexism rather than misogny. I think of misogyny as hatred of women which is stronger than/different from sexism.

[LizzieSiddal]

We’re in our 50s been married a v long time, started v traditionally with me a SAHM and dh working v Iong hours. It’s been a learning curve for both of us, me expecting more for him re children/house etc and him acknowledging that men usually have half as much to think about than women.
When you have one of the “good” ones who still doesn’t always get it, my advice is to stop doing whatever it is which he isn’t thinking about, so tell him, “I’m not doing X anymore (dentist appointments/cooking and meal planing on a Thursday and Friday) as I’ve done it for years and I really feel it’s your turn.
Then leave them to it…. There may be a few slip ups, but they get there pretty quickly when they realise the buck stops with them.

[Mybalconyiscracking]

Meh, I deal with children, DH deals with cars and bills. It works for us, I don’t think he assumes any kind of superiority!

[youvegottenminuteslynn]

'Hands-on dad'
'Babysitting the kids'
'Helping with the kids'

All phrases used exclusively for men because women are seen as default, capable parent.

Unreal we are still at that stage in 2021 even with the 'good guys'.

😞

[CovoidOfAllHumanity]

My DH does more of the childcare and I do more of the earning so relative to many we have a decent balance but some things that still irk are:

The royal we eg 'We' need x or should get 'y' ie you wife need to sort it out. Also 'it's my mums birthday should we get..?' Nope. She's not my mum you get it.

People patting him on the back for ordinary stuff eg picking DC up from school or hosting a play date 'your DH is sooo good'
He used to lap it up smugly but doesn't so much since I called it out

A bit of NAMALT and false equivalence. Around the time 'me too' was news we talked about it and he told me about one time a gay guy came on to him in a toilet. Once in his life. He quickly understood when I started to tell him about the full on sexual assaults I have suffered and countless harassment at work and socially that he needs to STFU. I still don't think he really gets why stuff like reporting of Sarah Everard's murder can move me to tears. It's just so close to home and brings back painful memories.

To be fair to him often he has a knee jerk failure to recognise his privilege and a 'that's not me' reaction but on reflection can adjust his thinking. My own brother and a male colleague I respected a lot at work disappointed me more. All 'men get raped too' and 'the world is equal now' and 'I think class is a more important factor that's not talked about enough'

[Animood]

Still remember my dad having a go at mum because she forgot to pay the school dinners.

When mum pointed out they had BOTH forgotten to pay the school dinners my dad just stared at her like she was mad and said "you never asked me to".

LOL.

[PicsInRed]

The "good ones" don't sound good at all.

[threeleggedchair]

@Triffid1

There's also the occasional assumption that I'm default childcare and the odd NAMALT.

Yes. The default childcare is the one I'm currently annoyed about but yes, all round. We had an argument about something a few weeks ago - no big deal in the bigger scheme of things. But what still makes me a bit irritated thinking about it is that he got to storm off and sit in the lounge sulking. I was the one who still had to make sure the kids got dinner, DD was bathed etc etc.

Argh. Must not harp on about the negatives. Must remember the good things and the progress. But.... ARGH!!!! It's so bloody frustrating sometimes.

OP I also despise the fact that my OH gets to withdraw after an argument whilst I still have to carry on parenting.

I thought I was alone in having to experience this entailed behaviour from OH but sadly it seems that I am not.

The sheer male privilege infuriates me.

[steppemum]

hmm, I sort of agree with some of what is said, but actually my 'good one' dh doesn't do quite a lot of what you are saying, and I don't think my brothers do either.

As an example, when I was ill with Covid last week. He just seemlessly did all the things I do without me having to say anything. It would never occur to me to organise him to do it either. I work part time and he works full time, so usually I do more household jobs, but at certain points in the year I work full time and then he picks up a load more so it is 50/50. I don't organise it, I just tell him I'm working full time and he steps up.

But interestingly, when I was ill, lots of people texted him and asked if he needed help, was coping etc.
He thought that was really funny. I didn't. If he goes on a work trip for 3 weeks (very occasionally this happened pre-Covid) not one single perosn would ask me if I needed a meal or help with kids. I am ill for 6 days and he has several texts asking just this.
That is from women. I think they perpetuate it as much as the men.

[33goingon64]

Yes yes yes. My DH is more than halfway there to being one of the good ones. But I learned pretty early on that many of those deeply held assumptions are just not going to shift. I'm gradually working on finding ways to make it obvious to him, bit by bit. Tonight I stayed sitting down at the table instead of leaping up to clear, as I normally would, and eventually he did it. Small victories ✌

[BillMasheen]

@JingleCatJingle

My feminist theory supporting DH calmly told me that men and women see dirt differently and that is why I needed to be the one to clean all the bathrooms.
I feel for you OP

My DP tried this one.

Told him it was fucking hilarious how he couldn’t see dirt in the kitchen but could spend 4 hours valeting his wanky performance car. It was fucking spotless. Unlike the kitchen.

[LittleWingSoul]

@JingleCatJingle that old chestnut!

[Firevixen]

@JingleCatJingle

My feminist theory supporting DH calmly told me that men and women see dirt differently and that is why I needed to be the one to clean all the bathrooms.
I feel for you OP

Is he now buried under the patio?

[JingleCatJingle]

My feminist theory supporting DH calmly told me that men and women see dirt differently and that is why I needed to be the one to clean all the bathrooms.
I feel for you OP

[Feelingoktoday]

My partner booked us a lovely weekend away. He was telling me afterwards how one of my friends had say to him how lucky I am blah blah. I laughed and said I wonder why the bar is so low for men yet I don’t get thanked having just organised a weekend for a group of friends, sorted hotels out and booked tables. No one says to my partner how lucky he is because it’s just expected of us. He did have the decency to laugh and agree with me.

[AnneElliott]

I get you op. Everything child related is my job unless I specifically ask him to do something. He has total freedom to wander off at will whereas I have to mark stuff on the calendar and remind him that he has DS (luckily a teenager now but he still needs lifts and can't be left overnight).

And he has never got DS up and out and left me in bed - not when I've been ill, not when really tired. Only if I've been away and as soon as I walk through the door it's my responsibility again.