Care worker buys women for sex for man

[OhHolyJesus]

Life case on you tube being heard now

[PaleBlueMoonlight]

God this is good news. Well, well done Nia.

[Snugglemuffin]

Really glad to read that this was overturned.

[sawdustformypony]

//niaendingviolence.org.uk/charity-welcomes-judgement-in-prostitution-case/

Nia have to justify spending money on a QC and a junior. They could have saved their money - the Court of Appeal would have come to the same conclusion.

7 QC (and their juniors) in that case - all to essentially argue over the meaning of the phrase "to cause". What a hoot !

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2021/1527.html

[NiceGerbil]

Good. Original decision terrible and reasoning a shitshow.

[catzwhiskas]

brilliant work all.

[Imnobody4]

This is great news. Another impressive win for the Centre gor Women's Justice.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

This has now been overturned!

niaendingviolence.org.uk/charity-welcomes-judgement-in-prostitution-case/

[NiceGerbil]

'“I cannot think of any more obviously fundamental human right than the right of a man to have sex with his wife ''

Hit me with any nuance/ lack of clarity/ different ways to interpret that quote.

[NiceGerbil]

I have access to what the judge said.

Knowing his words would be recorded. And that anything to do with sex is of great interest to the media. And that in this type of case there are certain orgs taking a big interest.

You seem to imagine there is any possible context that would make what he said fine and dandy.

There isn't. Nope.

It was a ridiculous and obviously highly inflammatory statement. And judges know that what they say and how they say it is very important.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

You don't see it as a possibility at all.

That's an unnuanced interpretation of my response.

Of course a judge making this statement is an outrage.

I can see that, for whatever reason, you have great certainty in this matter so I must assume that you have access to information that has eluded me despite some careful research in this area.

[NiceGerbil]

You don't see it as a possibility at all.

That the Outrage was there from those closer to this area and that's why it got reported?

Or that the reporters thought it was newsworthy because what was said?

Judges choose their words carefully. They know they will be recorded and available for anyone to read (in most cases). They are the people with the job of applying justice in a fair and balanced way according to the law. They are the ultimate arbitrators and have a highly responsible and respected role.

Of course a judge making this statement is an outrage.

''“I cannot think of any more obviously fundamental human right than the right of a man to have sex with his wife '

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

@NiceGerbil

What motives do you think resulted in that comment being condemned and printed in the papers?

Outrage and click bait.

It's a cheap tactic, it gets a name known. It plainly works.

[NiceGerbil]

What motives do you think resulted in that comment being condemned and printed in the papers?

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

You can't see why what he said was a problem?

I will always see a problem with taking remarks out of context whatever the motives.

I formed my opinion by reading several CoP judgments and attending precise discussions on the scope of the narrow areas on which Justice Hayden had been enlisted to rule.

[NiceGerbil]

Whatever he 'meant' to say. And I believe he got pissed off with the reaction.

A very high up judge stating in ANY context - this:

'“I cannot think of any more obviously fundamental human right than the right of a man to have sex with his wife '

Is unequivocally appalling.

-Not a couple to have sex with each other- man with his wife.

-No more fundamental human right? He can't think of ANY? None at all ?????
The international declaration of Human rights includes stuff like-
No one shall be subject to slavery
No one shall be subject to torture
Ummmm.

• marital rape was only banned in the early 90s.

No man has had the right to sex with his wife here for (only) 30 years

You can't see why what he said was a problem?

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

[quote NiceGerbil]Is this the same judge Hayden?

'A row has erupted after a judge spoke in court about the “fundamental human right” of a man to have sex with his wife.

The remark was made by Mr Justice Hayden, who had been asked to consider imposing a court order preventing a man from having sex with his wife of 20 years because she may no longer be able to give her consent.'

www.theguardian.com/law/2019/apr/03/english-judge-says-man-having-sex-with-wife-is-fundamental-human-right[/quote]
Yes.

I don't know why MPs seized upon it as misogyny but in context, it seems as if Justice Hayden was arguing for a compassionate examination of a complex and sensitive issue.

www.transparencyproject.org.uk/does-a-man-have-a-right-to-sex-with-his-wife/

[NiceGerbil]

Is this the same judge Hayden?

'A row has erupted after a judge spoke in court about the “fundamental human right” of a man to have sex with his wife.

The remark was made by Mr Justice Hayden, who had been asked to consider imposing a court order preventing a man from having sex with his wife of 20 years because she may no longer be able to give her consent.'

www.theguardian.com/law/2019/apr/03/english-judge-says-man-having-sex-with-wife-is-fundamental-human-right

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]Does it involve the cases in this thread and Justice Hayden's judgment?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4232040-Carers-allowed-to-help-clients-visit-sex-workers[/quote]
For anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend the very nuanced and focused discussion in the King Chambers' webinar mentioned in the above thread which is about the original CoP judgment.

www.kingschambers.com/latest-news/resources/can-it-be-lawful-for-the-state-to-facilitate-an-incapacitatous-person-to-see-a-sex-worker

[NiceGerbil]

While looking for info etc on the case I found one about a woman with autism who wanted sex with men.

If you are subscribed to times they prob have more info. This is not paywalled.

Warning- upsetting.


www.theweek.co.uk/97209/local-authorities-accused-of-pimping-out-autistic-woman?amp

[NiceGerbil]

Well he views sex as a human need and it's not fair for some men to buy be able to get some so...

[Rosieandjim04]

I've worked with adults with a learning disability one service user wanted to book sex workers but had history of making threats against women and calling them names. A risk assessment was done and it was agreed by the multidisciplinary team that he could purchase an adult DVD but he wouldn't be able to book a sex worker because we couldn't guarantee her safety unless we directly supervised which would be all sorts of wrongs.

Why hasn't the judge considered a risk assessment for the woman?

[NiceGerbil]

'
Yet a male waves a finger, in a situation where he is already guaranteed all those things with no struggle, and he now has a fundamental right for SEX?? WTF?? I'

Ah, no.

Someone or some group have the confidence knowledge and money to take his case to court.

Totally different matter.

On the other case, there was a very long quote from a company that provides this service. The context seemed that they were involved in some way.

I think these cases are strategic. The aim is to get rulings with sex is a right etc and then they can be used to challenge other laws.

[NiceGerbil]

Sidetrack-

The pics from the film the bloke isn't in an iron lung. He's on a hospital bed thing or in a bed.

The actual bloke was in an iron lung.

I don't think the actor chosen was a particularly good match for his physical aspect either.

Do you know why that is?

I've only just heard about this film.

[NiceGerbil]

My personal view is that as the 'right' to sex has been mentioned, in the context of it being a need. Including by one pretty high profile org.

While people mean the words need and right in different ways. They do have specific meanings for really important global aims etc.

That's why on these topics there is such pushback around saying sex is a need or s right.

[NiceGerbil]

'There is NO fundamental right to food in this country. There is NO fundamental right to housing in this country. There is NO fundamental right to clothing and energy in this country. '

I was thinking of the international declaration of Human rights.

Food etc are on there. The aim of the document is to:

'Proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves..' etc